# Pop culture references that mean the opposite of the conventional wisdom **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 31, 2009, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-culture-references-that-mean-the-opposite-of-the-conventional-wisdom/491434 "2009-03-31T15:05:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2016, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-culture-references-that-mean-the-opposite-of-the-conventional-wisdom/491434/41 "2016-01-03T19:27:32Z")
Extreme’s “More Than Words” isn’t a love song, nor is it suitable for weddings. It’s a guy telling his girlfriend that she’s history unless she has sex with him. Green Day’s “Time Of Your Life” isn’t exactly a happy, joyous song either.:dubious: ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2016, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-culture-references-that-mean-the-opposite-of-the-conventional-wisdom/491434/42 "2016-01-03T19:42:40Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > Extreme’s “More Than Words” isn’t a love song, nor is it suitable for weddings. It’s a guy telling his girlfriend that she’s history unless she has sex with him. > > Green Day’s “Time Of Your Life” isn’t exactly a happy, joyous song either.:dubious: It’s not exactly called “Time of your life” either… Look up the real title. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2016, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-culture-references-that-mean-the-opposite-of-the-conventional-wisdom/491434/43 "2016-01-03T19:59:47Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > Extreme’s “More Than Words” isn’t a love song, nor is it suitable for weddings. It’s a guy telling his girlfriend that she’s history unless she has sex with him. That’s one possible interpretation, but not the only one. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2016, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-culture-references-that-mean-the-opposite-of-the-conventional-wisdom/491434/44 "2016-01-03T20:10:58Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Not really for the simple reason that god is not mentioned at all regarding the interaction of EVE and the serpent, it is indeed about the snake being the symbol of life throwing off the past and continuing to live. > > And that in context shows that Scalia trying to make the snake to be about “evil” was wrong, and it is even more wrong when one takes into consideration what Scalia was trying to do with that “gotcha” to use that as a defense of his reprehensible view of the separation of church and state is very underwhelming once we do become aware of the larger context. Scalia knew what Shaw meant, which is why he opposes it. RFK had no idea what Shaw was saying, but blithely turned Shaw into a cheery fortune cookie philosopher. Shaw, like Nietzsche, wanted to tear our society apart and build anew, on wholly New foundations. RFK didn’t grasp that, nor did the hippie hippie types who put that quote on flowery posters. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2016, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-culture-references-that-mean-the-opposite-of-the-conventional-wisdom/491434/45 "2016-01-03T20:19:19Z")
> [@](#): > > When Austin Powers cocks an eyebrow to a comely young supermodel and says “Oh, behave!”, I don’t think he actually wants her to behave. Oh, he certainly wants her to behave. He’s just not saying _how_. And as for “Have Yourself a Merry Little Christmas”, even the version that was in the show is plenty morbid and depressing. ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2016, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-culture-references-that-mean-the-opposite-of-the-conventional-wisdom/491434/46 "2016-01-03T20:23:55Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > That’s one possible interpretation, but not the only one. It’s the one I took from the song from the first time I heard it. Always thought it was a douchie, cynical song. ---
**Author:** ![storyguide3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@storyguide3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyguide3)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2016, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-culture-references-that-mean-the-opposite-of-the-conventional-wisdom/491434/47 "2016-01-03T21:08:56Z")
> [@RikWriter](#): > > It’s the one I took from the song from the first time I heard it. Always thought it was a douchie, cynical song. Whereas when I first heard the song, and still think today, that it means that just saying “I love you” is not a get out of jail free card. It says that if you really love someone, you show it, not just say it. There are many ways to show that you love someone. And from what I have read, that was what the songwriters intended the song to mean in the first place. Certainly the lyrics of the song support much more than a “I want sex” interpretation. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2016, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-culture-references-that-mean-the-opposite-of-the-conventional-wisdom/491434/48 "2016-01-03T21:22:52Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Scalia knew what Shaw meant, which is why he opposes it. RFK had no idea what Shaw was saying, but blithely turned Shaw into a cheery fortune cookie philosopher. > > Shaw, like Nietzsche, wanted to tear our society apart and build anew, on wholly New foundations. RFK didn’t grasp that, nor did the hippie hippie types who put that quote on flowery posters. I think you are missing the point, that is why I said both yes and no, I’m just saying that while Scalia is trying to do that, he is welcome to sound silly if he thinks the context does help him more than the ones that opposed organized religion, like Shaw. ---
**Author:** ![Wallaby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/dc4da7/32.png) [@Wallaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wallaby)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2016, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-culture-references-that-mean-the-opposite-of-the-conventional-wisdom/491434/49 "2016-01-03T22:41:02Z")
Not really Pop culture, but the term ‘Big Bang’ for the origin of the universe was actually coined by an opponent of the theory (Fred Hoyle) and was intended to show how far-fetched the idea was. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2016, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-culture-references-that-mean-the-opposite-of-the-conventional-wisdom/491434/50 "2016-01-03T22:49:32Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Apart from being snide and ridiculously wrong-headed, this has absolutely NOTHING to do with the topic. > > Please try again. It is absolutely relevant to the OP, just thinking out of the box (or maybe the crypt). ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2016, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-culture-references-that-mean-the-opposite-of-the-conventional-wisdom/491434/51 "2016-01-03T23:13:53Z")
The Beatles’s “We Can Work It Out” is usually taken to mean that it’s about compromise and finding common ground. The lyrics, though, say the opposite: see it my way because if we do it your way, it’s probably over between us. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2016, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-culture-references-that-mean-the-opposite-of-the-conventional-wisdom/491434/52 "2016-01-04T00:04:04Z")
I have never seen somebody refer to something as ‘Newspeak’ in a way that actually showed an understanding of what it is. Invariably, it’s used to complain about neologisms or jargon - words _added_ to the lexicon to _allow for_ easier discussion of concepts that have no words in standard English. Unlike actual Newspeak, which was the systematic _removal_ of words in order to _prevent_ discussion or transmission of, or even thinking about concepts that aren’t party-approved. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2016, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-culture-references-that-mean-the-opposite-of-the-conventional-wisdom/491434/53 "2016-01-04T00:21:22Z")
> [@Kamino\_Neko](#): > > I have never seen somebody refer to something as ‘Newspeak’ in a way that actually showed an understanding of what it is. > > Invariably, it’s used to complain about neologisms or jargon - words _added_ to the lexicon to _allow for_ easier discussion of concepts that have no words in standard English. > > Unlike actual Newspeak, which was the systematic _removal_ of words in order to _prevent_ discussion or transmission of, or even thinking about concepts that aren’t party-approved. I don’t hear that. I hear Newspeak referring to saying the opposite of what is true from a position of authority. It never refers to neologisms used to express subtleties. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2016, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-culture-references-that-mean-the-opposite-of-the-conventional-wisdom/491434/54 "2016-01-04T18:16:31Z")
You know, I’ve heard a LOT of people say that Extreme’s ballad “More Than Words” is just a demand for sex. To some people, it’s obvious that the song just means, “Don’t SAY you love me, honey, PROVE it by dropping your panties and spreading.” I just don’t see it. I know, I could be just too dense to see what’s right in front of my nose, but ask yourself this: if a FEMALE vocalist had sung the exact same lyrics, would you interpret the song the same way? Or would we figure she’s saying, “Prove you love me by the way you TREAT me! Don’t treat me like dirt and then think you can make it up to me instantly by saying you love me.” Beyond that, were most of Extreme’s songs typical heavy metal ditties about fast cars and fast women? No. They were always a LITTLE more thoughtful than most metal bands of their era. FWIW, Nuno Bettencourt, who wrote the song, has always denied that “More Than Words” was a demand for sex disguised as a love ballad. He’s always said it’s about how many people say “I love you” so often and so thoughtlessly that it becomes meaningless. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2016, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-culture-references-that-mean-the-opposite-of-the-conventional-wisdom/491434/55 "2016-01-04T20:04:39Z")
“The exception proves the rule” – of course any exception **dis** proves the rule, but the word “prove” in that phrase is used in the sense of “test,” not in the sense of “confirm.” ---
**Author:** ![Rodgers01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@Rodgers01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rodgers01)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2016, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-culture-references-that-mean-the-opposite-of-the-conventional-wisdom/491434/56 "2016-01-04T20:45:19Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > “You’ll Never Walk Alone” is viewed as a happy, inspirational song, suggesting that you’re NOT alone, and that you’re surrounded by friends who’ll help you. > > But it’s really saying that you ARE all alone- it just isn’t so bad if you can find a tiny bit of hope in your heart. Well in fairness, the song doesn’t really say that you ARE alone; it doesn’t comment either way on whether your friends are there or not, no? “What Are You Doing New Year’s Eve?” seems to be increasingly popular around this time of year. But I’ve read that the lyricist hated that, because the song should be sung long in advance of the night in question - i.e. the (supposed) point is that the singer is imagining a time in the future (“Maybe it’s much too early in the game…”) when the object of affection will be his/her date on New Year’s Eve. ---
**Author:** ![Harvey\_The\_Heavy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Harvey\_The\_Heavy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harvey_The_Heavy)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2016, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-culture-references-that-mean-the-opposite-of-the-conventional-wisdom/491434/57 "2016-01-06T08:18:29Z")
[Uncle Tom.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncle_Tom) ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2016, 8:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-culture-references-that-mean-the-opposite-of-the-conventional-wisdom/491434/58 "2016-01-06T08:58:37Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > The Beatles’s “We Can Work It Out” is usually taken to mean that it’s about compromise and finding common ground. > > The lyrics, though, say the opposite: see it my way because if we do it your way, it’s probably over between us. I have fought with so many people about this that I’ve lost count. Thanks for seeing the same thing I do in that song. Wasn’t _This Land Is Your Land_ supposed to be a satirical response to _God Bless America,_ but people have misconstrued the meaning, as well? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2016, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-culture-references-that-mean-the-opposite-of-the-conventional-wisdom/491434/59 "2016-01-06T11:12:50Z")
> [@Superdude](#): > > Wasn’t _This Land Is Your Land_ supposed to be a satirical response to _God Bless America,_ but people have misconstrued the meaning, as well? A response, yes, but not a satirical one. It was basically written as a socialist manifesto. ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2016, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-culture-references-that-mean-the-opposite-of-the-conventional-wisdom/491434/60 "2016-01-06T12:23:10Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > A response, yes, but not a satirical one. It was basically written as a socialist manifesto. I like Dave Barry’s version: “This land is your land, this land is my land; looks like one of us, has a forged deed to this land…” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-culture-references-that-mean-the-opposite-of-the-conventional-wisdom/491434.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-culture-references-that-mean-the-opposite-of-the-conventional-wisdom/491434.md?page=4)