# Pop Culture Stuff Everyone Seems to Misunderstand **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 22, 2021, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-culture-stuff-everyone-seems-to-misunderstand/940564 "2021-04-22T19:51:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 24
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2021, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-culture-stuff-everyone-seems-to-misunderstand/940564/462 "2021-05-13T12:20:45Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > And yet the vast majority of people who have seen it and thought about it and written about it disagree with you. Is it because they’re all idiots? Is it because (and again I’m not talking about the casual viewers, I’m talking about professional reviewers) are lying when they claim to have scrutinized the movie? > > Or is it possible that your view is fantastically idiosyncratic, and that other folks come at the movie with thoughtful disagreement, and that your claims might not bear up under the slightest scrutiny? Dunno. I agree with him, though. Watch **It! The Terror from Beyond Space** siometime. It’s by noted sf writer Jerome Bixby (responsible for the original story **It’s a _Good_ Life** , upon which the _Twilight Zone_ episode of the same name was based – the one with Billy Mumy as the Boy Who Can Do Anything, who puts people out “in the cornfield”. He also wrote the final script for **Fantastic Voyage** and several interesting yet forgotten SF movies, as well as a couple of episodes of the original _Star Trek_. **Alien** basically rips off the plot of **It!** , but not as intelligently, and adds a bunch of ill-considered and not completely working plot elements. The many hands on the script show – originally it was going to be “Mother”, the main computer that was siding with the Alien against the crew, but later it was Ash the Android (whose nature and even the existence of such androids) was not at all properly prepared for. Later Ash’s siding with the Alien was retconned into the nefarious actions of The corporation (later named Wayland-Yutani). It’s normal for concepts in a franchise to evolve and gain detail as time goes on, but this one is extremely sloppy. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2021, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-culture-stuff-everyone-seems-to-misunderstand/940564/463 "2021-05-13T12:36:54Z")
It’s not that I think everyone must love the movie. A nuanced understanding of some of its plot flaws, thinking that it has elements that are “not completely working,” makes sense to me. It’s the absolutist statements, like saying the setup “does not hold up to the slightest scrutiny,” or that “the scenario is constructed solely to make the audience jump and not think about it,” that strike me as obviously wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2021, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-culture-stuff-everyone-seems-to-misunderstand/940564/464 "2021-05-13T15:32:03Z")
> [@Knowed\_Out](#): > > From what I recall of _Alien_ , the stupid decisions made by the crew were understandable, considering how unprepared they were for that type of situation. Well quite. The crew of the Nostromo were not swashbuckling space pirates, fearlessly traversing the interstellar void, laser-cutlass in teeth. They were on a space tug hauling a refinery. They were purposefully put in a situation that they’d never experienced, with a creature of incredible abilities, that they clearly weren’t well trained or equipped for (no guns at all?), and which was purposefully made worse by malevolent forces within and without. How well would a modern container-ship crew deal with an equivalent situation? Questionably at best I suggest. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2021, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-culture-stuff-everyone-seems-to-misunderstand/940564/465 "2021-05-13T15:35:06Z")
When I worked at the animal shelter, a co-worker was sent to the urgent care clinic for a bite wound and a drug test. He had seen the cage with the “DANGEROUS DOG” sign on it, doubted the sign’s veracity, and embarked on a scientific experiment consisting of sticking his hand into the cage. When characters in movies do dumb shit, it does not break my suspension of disbelief. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2021, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-culture-stuff-everyone-seems-to-misunderstand/940564/466 "2021-05-13T17:12:24Z")
This aspect of the movie is looking more and more like a “metaphor for current concerns.” ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2021, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-culture-stuff-everyone-seems-to-misunderstand/940564/467 "2021-05-13T17:42:11Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > They were purposefully put in a situation that they’d never experienced, with a creature of incredible abilities, that they clearly weren’t well trained or equipped for (no guns at all?), and which was purposefully made worse by malevolent forces within and without. When they’re outside the ship in their spacesuits you can see that some of them have sidearms strapped to their side. I don’t think any of them mention the possibility of using it against the alien due to it’s acidic blood though. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2021, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-culture-stuff-everyone-seems-to-misunderstand/940564/468 "2021-05-13T18:58:05Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > When they’re outside the ship in their spacesuits you can see that some of them have sidearms strapped to their side. I don’t think any of them mention the possibility of using it against the alien due to it’s acidic blood though. Ah, it has been a few years since I watched it. The upshot anyway would be that they ended up ill-equipped, guns or not. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2021, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-culture-stuff-everyone-seems-to-misunderstand/940564/469 "2021-05-13T19:03:16Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Ah, it has been a few years since I watched it. The upshot anyway would be that they ended up ill-equipped, guns or not. It’s hard to tell and I don’t think there’s any scenes where they really bring attention to it. There’s a still photo of Kane with his pistol drawn before he examines the egg but that scene didn’t make it into the movie. But, yeah, they’re ill-equipped and not at all trained for dealing with the alien that has an outer layer of protein polysacchardes with a funny habit of shedding their cells and replacing with with polarized silicon. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2021, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-culture-stuff-everyone-seems-to-misunderstand/940564/470 "2021-05-13T19:08:12Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > they’re ill-equipped and not at all trained for dealing with the alien that has an outer layer of protein polysacchardes with a funny habit of shedding their cells and replacing with with polarized silicon. yep, they are space truckers and not at all expected to be kicking thorax and taking names. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2021, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-culture-stuff-everyone-seems-to-misunderstand/940564/471 "2021-05-13T21:30:10Z")
Even worse when you realize it was a bug hunt and not a stand-up fight. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2021, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-culture-stuff-everyone-seems-to-misunderstand/940564/472 "2021-05-14T02:18:56Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > yep, they are space truckers and not at all expected to be kicking thorax and taking names. Quote of the day! ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2021, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-culture-stuff-everyone-seems-to-misunderstand/940564/473 "2021-05-14T11:38:46Z")
[Not all space truckers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ace_Trucking_Co.) are non-ass-kickers > [@CalMeacham](#): > > **Alien** basically rips off the plot of **It!** , but not as intelligently, and adds a bunch of ill-considered and not completely working plot elements. While O’Bannon happily acknowledged stealing “from everyone”, the only thing you can really say _Alien_ rips off from _I!TTFBS_ is that the action happens on a spaceship. The idea of a murderous alien from a derelict craft attacking a small group of people was already done in the 1951 _Thing From Another World_. And clearly you differ from a lot of people in what is and isn’t ill-considered. The plot elements that were introduced - the spacers being truckers rather than explorers, the parasitoid nature of the creature, the lone survivor - are _all_ improvements that work. But really, the fact that you think you need to explain in detail to this crowd which episode of _TZ_ the _It’s A Good Life_ one was, is perhaps the most telling part of that whole post. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2021, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-culture-stuff-everyone-seems-to-misunderstand/940564/474 "2021-05-14T12:25:08Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > the only thing you can really say _Alien_ rips off from _I!TTFBS_ is that the action happens on a spaceship. Oh, God, this is so untrue it isn’t funny. Alien Monster gets aboard a spaceship and starts killing off people, moving about through the (ludicrously large) air ducts and picking them off one by one. The monster is too big and strong to attack directly, so they try various strategems to get rid of it. These fail, sometimes subverted by the crew itself (unintentionally, in the case of It!) Eventually the remaining members of the crew get rid of it by putting on space suits and opening the hatch. Articles in the magazine _Cinefantastique_ pointed out the obvious similarities when the film came out (although their readership was doubtless aware f it). Screenwriter Jerome Bixby reportedly considered suing, but didn’t. There’s some truth to O’Bannon’s statement that he borrowed from other places. The idea of a crashed alien spaceship with a giant skeleton aboard was used in the Italian film **Planet of Vampires**. The idea of an alien implanting embryos inside a crewman’s body was used in the Roger Corman quickie **Night of the Blood Beast**. But by far the bulk of the plot comes from **It!** The notion of a monster loose aboard a space ship seems to have first been used by A.E. Van Vogt in the short story _Black Destroyer_, but its plot is wholly different from **It!** or **Alien**. A slightly later story by Van Vogt – _Discord in Scarlet_, features an alien implanting its eggs inside a living astronaut. Both stories were combined with others to form the novel _Voyage of the Space Beagle_. But O’Bannon struck me as more of a movie guy, and I think he got huis ideas from the movies named above rather than from Van Vogt. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2021, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-culture-stuff-everyone-seems-to-misunderstand/940564/475 "2021-05-14T12:57:16Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Eventually the remaining members of the crew get rid of it by putting on space suits and opening the hatch. That’s … not actually what got rid of the xenomorph in _Alien_. > [@CalMeacham](#): > > There’s some truth to O’Bannon’s statement that he borrowed from other places. “Some truth” - as in, a lot of it. > [@CalMeacham](#): > > But by far the bulk of the plot comes from **It!** The plot of _Alien_ and the plot of _It!_ are very different, unless you reduce the plot of both to “Alien gets on board spaceship and murders people” and ignore all the elements like what kind of ship, how the alien gets on board, why it’s on board, who lives, and how it’s finally killed. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2021, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-culture-stuff-everyone-seems-to-misunderstand/940564/476 "2021-05-14T13:05:15Z")
More importantly, while _Alien_ isn’t by any stretch an “idiot plot” as RC claims, nobody raves about the movie because of its brilliantly intricate plotting. The plot is serviceable but not really memorable: after having seen it twice, I don’t remember much of the details. We’re not talking _Sixth Sense_ or _Usual Suspects_ or _Gone Girl_ or some other movie where the plot’s the star of the show. What made _Alien_ stand out wasn’t the plot, or the acting, or the intricate characterizationm, all of which were fine just fine. It stood out because the setting, the mood, and the monster effects were so effective. The monster design especially was _not_ copied from _It!_, and if folks remember just one thing about the movie, that’s it. And I don’t know if _It!_ had anything like the claustrophobic dread that _Alien_ had, but the snippets I’ve watched on Youtube don’t suggest that it did. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2021, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-culture-stuff-everyone-seems-to-misunderstand/940564/477 "2021-05-14T13:06:54Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > That’s … not actually what got rid of the xenomorph in _Alien_ . > > > [@CalMeacham](#): > > > > There’s some truth to O’Bannon’s statement that he borrowed from other places. > > “Some truth” - as in, a lot of it. > > > [@CalMeacham](#): > > > > But by far the bulk of the plot comes from **It!** > > The plot of _Alien_ and the plot of _It!_ are very different, unless you reduce the plot of both to “Alien gets on board spaceship and murders people” and ignore all the elements like what kind of ship, how the alien gets on board, why it’s on board, who lives, and how it’s finally killed. I’m afraid that we are in complete and irreconcilable disagreement. [https://cinapse.co/it-the-terror-from-beyond-space-is-this-the-movie-that-inspired-alien-8caf7bf8f3c0](https://cinapse.co/it-the-terror-from-beyond-space-is-this-the-movie-that-inspired-alien-8caf7bf8f3c0) > **[ALIEN Ancestor: IT! THE TERROR FROM BEYOND SPACE (United Artists 1958)](https://crackedrearviewer.wordpress.com/2015/12/10/alien-ancestor-it-the-terror-from-beyond-space-united-artists-1958/)** > > Col. Edward Carruthers is the sole survivor of man’s first Mars expedition, the remainder of the crew brutally slaughtered. A second ship is sent to return Carruthers to Earth to be court-mar… ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2021, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-culture-stuff-everyone-seems-to-misunderstand/940564/478 "2021-05-14T13:15:31Z")
I choose to believe that O’Bannon’s most direct influence (re: an alien loose on a spaceship) came from a scene he himself previously wrote and acted in. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/T5YTXnnQjC4/hqdefault.jpg "Dark Star - Pinback vs. the alien") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5YTXnnQjC4) ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2021, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-culture-stuff-everyone-seems-to-misunderstand/940564/479 "2021-05-14T13:37:36Z")
Why are you quoting a cite that says > The story is basic. No surprises, no twists, and very few turns. and > the much better _Alien._ as though it _helps_ your case? Yes, it points out the same (sometimes inaccurate) very basic plot similarities you just did. And…? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2021, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-culture-stuff-everyone-seems-to-misunderstand/940564/480 "2021-05-14T13:38:35Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I don’t know if _It!_ had anything like the claustrophobic dread that _Alien_ had It did not. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2021, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-culture-stuff-everyone-seems-to-misunderstand/940564/481 "2021-05-14T13:57:47Z")
> [@](#): > > When I saw _Alien_ for the first time,” writer Mark Ellis told Starlog magazine in 1992, “about thirty minutes into it I turned to my soon-to-be wife Melissa and grumbled, ‘Aw, hell this is just an uncredited remake of _It! [the Terror from Beyond Space._]’ I still look at _Alien_ as just a remake, and I groaned at the end when they dispatched the monster. They couldn’t even think of a better way to get rid of this damn thing than to have to borrow from _It!_ again. The picture just didn’t do much for me.” **Starlog** and **Cinefantastique** and other fantasy film magazines at the time were pretyty unanimous in drawing the comparisons. **Cinefantastique** devoted many pages to it, in fact. > **[It! The Terror from Beyond Space – Strange Shapes](https://alienseries.wordpress.com/tag/it-the-terror-from-beyond-space/)** > > Posts about It! The Terror from Beyond Space written by Valaquen If you didn’t think the small, classically cylindrical spaceship in It! didn’t have the claustrophobic feel attributed to **Alien** (which took place in a freakin’ HUGE ore-processing ship), then I think we were watching different films. I, too, thought of **Dark Star** when I saw **Alien.**. In fact, when I first saw the first trailer for Dark Star (which didn’t show you that it was a dark comedy) I thought that it was going to be a serious monster-loose-aboard-a–starship movie. it turns out that all the scenes with the “Beachball” with Pinback (played by O’Bannion" were actually “padding” that was shot after most of the rest of the film in order to bring the length of the originally student film up to a commercial length. I have to admit that I love them, though. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-culture-stuff-everyone-seems-to-misunderstand/940564.md?page=23) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-culture-stuff-everyone-seems-to-misunderstand/940564.md?page=25)