# Pop Culture Stuff Everyone Seems to Misunderstand **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 22, 2021, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-culture-stuff-everyone-seems-to-misunderstand/940564 "2021-04-22T19:51:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2021, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-culture-stuff-everyone-seems-to-misunderstand/940564/161 "2021-04-24T14:01:06Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > I’ve always wondered if Randy Newman’s _I Love L.A._ was intended as a rah-rah anthem to Los Angeles or something a little more interesting. Newman certainly has a track record of sarcastic songs. And why did he hate short people so much? Drawing a parallel between being short and being an untrustworthy liar seems specious at best. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2021, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-culture-stuff-everyone-seems-to-misunderstand/940564/162 "2021-04-24T14:44:58Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > If I had known this, I might have watched it. Nothing about the clips I’d seen appealed to me. The reboot was even better cause they had all the MTV reality shows to shit on. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2021, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-culture-stuff-everyone-seems-to-misunderstand/940564/163 "2021-04-24T14:50:33Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > It’s taken from a poem by Edward Arlington Robinson, whose point (and Simon’s) is that you can’t tell a person’s demons merely by looking. Or, more simply, money doesn’t but happiness. You beat me to it.I was about to post this. One of my professor, A.R. Gurney, wrote a play based on the poem, entitled Who Killed Richard Cory? \*. I saw it in an off-Broadway production. \*Wikipedia has the title wrong ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2021, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-culture-stuff-everyone-seems-to-misunderstand/940564/164 "2021-04-24T14:57:21Z")
Newman’s views on Political Science are also somewhat unorthodox, to say the least. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2021, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-culture-stuff-everyone-seems-to-misunderstand/940564/165 "2021-04-24T15:02:25Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > One of my professor, A.R. Gurney, wrote a play based on the poem, entitled Who Killed Richard Cory? Good God – someone adapted Gurney’s play into a _musical_. That must be a singularly depressing musical, or else someone else tragically misunderstood the poem > **[Richard Cory Makes NY Debut At NYMF Starring Cady Huffman, Catherine Cox,...](https://www.broadwayworld.com/long-island/article/Richard-Cory-Makes-NY-Debut-At-NYMF-Starring-Cady-Huffman-Catherine-Cox-Harris-Doran-Christeena-Riggs-Lynne-Wintersteller-And-More-20050825)** > > THE 2005 NEW YORK MUSIC THEATER FESTIVAL, DENNIS GRIMALDI PRODUCTIONS and NICK CAVARRA are pleased to announce the New York premiere of the new musical 'RICHARD CORY,' directed by JAMES BRENNAN. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2021, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-culture-stuff-everyone-seems-to-misunderstand/940564/166 "2021-04-24T15:08:43Z")
No slam on the OP, who has asked a great question. But I would posit that if everyone “misunderstands” some item of pop culture, then that misunderstanding “is” the pop culture, not the creators intentions. If everybody believes that “Every Breath You Take” is a love song, then it’s a freaking love song and what Gordon thinks is irrelevant. Franz Liebkind was wrong. ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2021, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-culture-stuff-everyone-seems-to-misunderstand/940564/167 "2021-04-24T16:13:16Z")
Townsend himself has stated that the line ‘We’re all wasted’ was nothing to do with being drugged or drunk, it was meant to be literal, that all the talents of the youth were being thrown away and so was being wasted instead of used. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2021, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-culture-stuff-everyone-seems-to-misunderstand/940564/168 "2021-04-24T16:17:23Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > But I would posit that if everyone “misunderstands” some item of pop culture, then that misunderstanding “is” the pop culture, not the creators intentions. That’s a valid observation. On the other hand, everyone in this thread understood the intent of the OP, and responded accordingly, despite the phrasing being inaccurate. So, by the same logic… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2021, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-culture-stuff-everyone-seems-to-misunderstand/940564/169 "2021-04-24T16:40:44Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > But I would posit that if everyone “misunderstands” some item of pop culture, then that misunderstanding “is” the pop culture, not the creators intentions. There’s the creator’s intentions, the meanings you can defend if you honestly argue from the text of the work and apply sound reasoning, and popular meanings someone could only get if they missed part of it and are arguing from a text which never existed outside of their head. It’s like [“ **Pierre Menard, Author of the _Quixote_** ”](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_Menard,_Author_of_the_Quixote), except people don’t recreate a perfect line-for-line replica in their head, they make a text divorced from the original and which is, sometimes, incorrect. Anyway, that last bit is what the thread is about. It’s an interesting thing to think about without insisting that it’s effectively the only interpretation, especially since the “pop culture interpretation” of a lot of songs seems to be a dance beat with asemic mouth noise layered on top. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2021, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-culture-stuff-everyone-seems-to-misunderstand/940564/170 "2021-04-24T16:55:17Z")
> [@Esprise\_Me](#): > > Sheesh. It shouldn’t be possible to so thoroughly misunderstand a children’s movie! What I noticed was that when Ursula transformed Ariel we got momentary – and very tiny – nudity but when Papa transformed her, he threw in a dress. I’m not sure what that says about me. ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2021, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-culture-stuff-everyone-seems-to-misunderstand/940564/171 "2021-04-24T17:13:03Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > There’s the creator’s intentions, …and popular meanings… > **[Intentional Fallacy](https://literariness.org/2016/03/17/intentional-fallacy/)** > > One of the critical concepts of New Criticism, “Intentional Fallacy” was formulated by Wimsatt and Beardsley in an essay in The Verbal Icon (1946) as the mistake of attempting to unders… ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2021, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-culture-stuff-everyone-seems-to-misunderstand/940564/172 "2021-04-24T17:13:43Z")
Just because it’s wrong to use the creator’s intentions in criticism doesn’t mean they don’t exist. ---
**Author:** ![Esprise\_Me](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprise_me/32/2947_2.png) [@Esprise\_Me](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprise_Me)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2021, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-culture-stuff-everyone-seems-to-misunderstand/940564/173 "2021-04-24T17:34:20Z")
Also, when Ursula transformed her, it looked painful; when dad did, it didn’t. And Ursula didn’t bother to make arrangements to get Ariel closer to the surface where she could breathe post-transformation. All of which further supports the blindingly obvious conclusion that Ursula is, in fact, a villain, not some misunderstood femimist heroine or victim of the patriarchy. As to @gdave’s point, I don’t think it’s unserious exactly, but I sometimes think there is sort of a trend of finding a way to shit on people’s childhood favorites for…I dunno, clicks, wokeness cred, something more than just having this interpretation and wanting to share it? Not that they don’t actually believe that interpretation, though? ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2021, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-culture-stuff-everyone-seems-to-misunderstand/940564/174 "2021-04-24T17:39:44Z")
Well, of course it exists. The point is that the audience’s interpretation is just as (maybe even more so) valid. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2021, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-culture-stuff-everyone-seems-to-misunderstand/940564/175 "2021-04-24T17:50:46Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > If everybody believes that “Every Breath You Take” is a love song, then it’s a freaking love song and what Gordon thinks is irrelevant. I’ve never found this to be a compelling argument. This is why we get absurd situations like a college student arguing with Ray Bradbury about the meaning of _Fahrenheit 451._ We can say that things have special meaning to us without implying that meaning is universal. And it’s quite another thing to unwittingly miss entire elements of the story. Some interpretations are more wrong than others. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2021, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-culture-stuff-everyone-seems-to-misunderstand/940564/176 "2021-04-24T17:54:31Z")
If _everybody_ believes something, then it _is_ universal. 😛 When the fight is you against the world, back the world. (Which, this being the Dope, someone will promptly and correctly point out that if everybody disagrees with me, then I am wrong, no matter what I believe or how strongly I believe it.) ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2021, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-culture-stuff-everyone-seems-to-misunderstand/940564/177 "2021-04-24T17:57:09Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > If _everybody_ believes something, then it _is_ universal. 😛 But everyone _doesn’t_, so it _isn’t_. There has been much talk about the creepiness of this song since it first came out. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2021, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-culture-stuff-everyone-seems-to-misunderstand/940564/178 "2021-04-24T18:05:06Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > When the fight is you against the world, back the world. (Which, this being the Dope, someone will promptly and correctly point out that if everybody disagrees with me, then I am wrong, no matter what I believe or how strongly I believe it.) Captain America says you’re wrong: [![](https://i.redd.it/xyl2yj96zowx.jpg) ](https://i.redd.it/xyl2yj96zowx.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2021, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-culture-stuff-everyone-seems-to-misunderstand/940564/179 "2021-04-24T18:05:55Z")
That reminds me of another one - you sometimes hear that Asimov got into an argument with a college student who had a strange view of “Nightfall” and slapped the kid down righteously, but that’s not right at all. Asimov heard a lecture from a distinguished professor about “Nightfall” and Asimov acknowledged that while he hadn’t consciously had those ideas while writing the story, the professor raised some interesting points (and the two became friendly). [It's Been a Good Life - Isaac Asimov - Google Books](https://books.google.com/books?id=SWBqlnbIIqkC&printsec=frontcover&dq=%22it%27s+been+a+good+life&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi42fSQvJfwAhVHbs0KHYv-D_8Q6AEwAHoECAAQAg#v=onepage&q=nightfall&f=false) \*The story about Bradbury I heard was that a college student argued with a professor about the Martian Chronicles, and as evidence contacted Bradbury (which the professor did not appreciate). ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2021, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-culture-stuff-everyone-seems-to-misunderstand/940564/180 "2021-04-24T18:08:18Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Captain America says you’re wrong: Reality says I’m right: [![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/5R-rbzcEM8A/hqdefault.jpg "Bambi Meets Godzilla (1969, HQ)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5R-rbzcEM8A) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-culture-stuff-everyone-seems-to-misunderstand/940564.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-culture-stuff-everyone-seems-to-misunderstand/940564.md?page=10)