# Pop songs with good countermelodies? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 8, 2014, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-songs-with-good-countermelodies/687937 "2014-05-08T01:15:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![MusicAddict95](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@MusicAddict95](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MusicAddict95)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2014, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-songs-with-good-countermelodies/687937/1 "2014-05-08T01:15:45Z")
Like the counter melody that runs throughout Carl Carlton’s version of “Everlasting Love.”🆒 ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2014, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-songs-with-good-countermelodies/687937/2 "2014-05-08T01:29:20Z")
Depends on your definition of “pop,” but [Irving Berlin](http://michaelfeinsteininitiative.blogspot.com/2013/08/irving-berlins-counterpoint-songs.html) was the master of that: [You’re Just in Love](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LAijDQ2cIE&feature=kp) [An Old Fashioned Wedding](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQ3IyCa8bG4) [Play a Simple Melody](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaGkvhxcOWI&feature=kp) ---
**Author:** ![MusicAddict95](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@MusicAddict95](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MusicAddict95)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2014, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-songs-with-good-countermelodies/687937/3 "2014-05-08T02:09:20Z")
Thanks for your response @RealityChuck, I guess what I mean is pop music anywhere from the '50s to the '90s, in general. I don’t care about mainstream music of today. Sorry if that’s too broad or not specific enough. :o ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2014, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-songs-with-good-countermelodies/687937/4 "2014-05-08T17:57:29Z")
I think the Beatles’ “Help” is a great example. ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2014, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-songs-with-good-countermelodies/687937/5 "2014-05-08T18:08:46Z")
I have always enjoyed the one in the chorus of Fall On Me by R.E.M. ---
**Author:** ![cjepson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a9adbd/32.png) [@cjepson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cjepson)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2014, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-songs-with-good-countermelodies/687937/6 "2014-05-09T03:42:50Z")
Simon & Garfunkel’s “Scarborough Fair/Canticle” is probably the archtypical answer. I also like the countermelodies in “All Good People” (aka “Your Move”) by Yes. ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2014, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-songs-with-good-countermelodies/687937/7 "2014-05-09T03:46:42Z")
> [@Crotalus](#): > > I have always enjoyed the one in the chorus of Fall On Me by R.E.M. First one I thought of. I like their use of it in “Harborcoat”, as well. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2014, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-songs-with-good-countermelodies/687937/8 "2014-05-09T04:04:18Z")
“Low” by Cracker. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2014, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-songs-with-good-countermelodies/687937/9 "2014-05-09T04:44:07Z")
> [@EinsteinsHund](#): > > I think the Beatles’ “Help” is a great example. The verses of “In My Life” also qualify. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2014, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-songs-with-good-countermelodies/687937/10 "2014-05-09T14:55:55Z")
Well, if you want to look pretty far out there, gotta go with a post-punk classic: **Gang of Four, Love Like Anthrax** : [Gang of Four - Anthrax (album version) - YouTube](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MC0WtNImZ0) Two lead vocal lines, very different, which overlap words occasionally. Totally brilliant at capturing the feel that GoF was after. Gotta warn you, OP, it starts with over a minute of strident guitar feedback, but when the drums kick in, you want to hear it on a loud stereo! ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2014, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-songs-with-good-countermelodies/687937/11 "2014-05-09T15:33:47Z")
I’m not familiar enough with the concept to be sure I know what you’re looking for. Something like the lead and background vocals in the choruses of the Beach Boys’ “[Don’t Worry Baby](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Y-0nWVdBH4)”? The contrasting vocal lines in They Might Be Giants’ “[Dinner Bell](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8PWHOVYhI8)”? Or songs where the vocal melody is accompanied by a different melodic line played on an instrument (such as the lead guitar), as in the Kinks’ “[Arthur](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1L4QzSPdY4)”? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2014, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-songs-with-good-countermelodies/687937/12 "2014-05-09T15:53:21Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > Well, if you want to look pretty far out there, gotta go with a post-punk classic: **Gang of Four, Love Like Anthrax** : [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=\_MC0WtNImZ0](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MC0WtNImZ0) > > Two lead vocal lines, very different, which overlap words occasionally. Totally brilliant at capturing the feel that GoF was after. Gotta warn you, OP, it starts with over a minute of strident guitar feedback, but when the drums kick in, you want to hear it on a loud stereo! Sleater-Kinney also made extensive use of the simultaneous vocals with different melodies and lyrics technique, particularly on _The Hot Rock_ album. The Beatles have a good example of it also in “I’ve Got a Feeling” where John’s and Paul’s verses are superimposed [at about 2:45.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kx6Vm72gMC0#t=165) I’ve got a feeling that the OP is looking for something slightly different, given the example in the OP, but I’m not sure. “Everlasting Love” just has vocal “ooh-aah-ooh” type melodies running through the background of the chorus, so it’s more like vocals being used purely as an instrument like brass or strings, not quite as complex as two melodic and lyrical melodies superimposed, but the OP will have to clarify. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2014, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-songs-with-good-countermelodies/687937/13 "2014-05-09T16:00:36Z")
Missed ETA: Would something like “The Lion Sleeps Tonight” by The Tokens qualify? Some of the background vocals aren’t really countermelody, but there are parts where there is a high vocal part (at least I assume it’s vocals–sounds a little theramin-ish), that does play a counter melody as opposed to the “awingmaweh” harmony/rhythm. ETA2: Nah, looks like that is supposed to be a theramin, not a high falsetto. ---
**Author:** ![cjepson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a9adbd/32.png) [@cjepson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cjepson)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2014, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-songs-with-good-countermelodies/687937/14 "2014-05-10T02:15:02Z")
Oh yeah – “No Sugar Tonight/New Mother Nature” by the Guess Who – at the end they sing both simultaneously. ---
**Author:** ![Octarine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/22d042/32.png) [@Octarine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Octarine)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2014, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-songs-with-good-countermelodies/687937/15 "2014-05-10T04:09:04Z")
There’s lots of Simon and Garfunkel that applies - the first that comes to mind is “Homeward Bound,” but there’s plenty more. Not to overload you with Beatles, as they’ve been mentioned upthread, but “Because” and “Baby’s in Black” are also great examples; if I recall correctly, when asked by the sheet music adapters whose line was the melody in “Baby’s in Black,” they said they both were. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2014, 9:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-songs-with-good-countermelodies/687937/16 "2014-05-10T09:08:33Z")
> [@Octarine](#): > > There’s lots of Simon and Garfunkel that applies - the first that comes to mind is “Homeward Bound,” but there’s plenty more. Not to overload you with Beatles, as they’ve been mentioned upthread, but “Because” and “Baby’s in Black” are also great examples; if I recall correctly, when asked by the sheet music adapters whose line was the melody in “Baby’s in Black,” they said they both were. Those are harmonies where it’s hard to decide which is the main melodic line. I think most people use “counter-melody” to refer to polyphonic intertwining of melodic lines – they differ in rhythm, not just in pitch. “Counter” means “against,” so you need something to go “against” something else. I guess mere pitch could qualify as that “something,” but only (in my book) if it’s to consistently produce “ugly” harmonic intervals. If we stick to the Beatles, the last lines of “Eleanor Rigby” accomplish the most common definition (polyphony). As in several other examples already mentioned, both melodies are introduced alone earlier in the song, then combined at the end. Another example is the soft-shoe sendup “All For the Best,” from the musical _Godspell_. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2014, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-songs-with-good-countermelodies/687937/17 "2014-05-10T11:11:25Z")
As with most threads that get all technical about music, I have no clue what you people are talking about. Eleanor Rigby and Homeward Bound sound like perfectly normal, contiguous songs to me, as do Help and In My Life and Scarborough Fair. Weird. ---
**Author:** ![Octarine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/22d042/32.png) [@Octarine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Octarine)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2014, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-songs-with-good-countermelodies/687937/18 "2014-05-10T11:49:16Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > Those are harmonies where it’s hard to decide which is the main melodic line. I think most people use “counter-melody” to refer to polyphonic intertwining of melodic lines – they differ in rhythm, not just in pitch. “Counter” means “against,” so you need something to go “against” something else. I guess mere pitch could qualify as that “something,” but only (in my book) if it’s to consistently produce “ugly” harmonic intervals. That would make more sense - the lines in my mind between harmony and countermelody were a bit blurred. Ignorance fought! ---
**Author:** ![MusicAddict95](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@MusicAddict95](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MusicAddict95)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2014, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-songs-with-good-countermelodies/687937/19 "2014-05-10T18:57:30Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > Those are harmonies where it’s hard to decide which is the main melodic line. I think most people use “counter-melody” to refer to polyphonic intertwining of melodic lines – they differ in rhythm, not just in pitch. “Counter” means “against,” so you need something to go “against” something else. I guess mere pitch could qualify as that “something,” but only (in my book) if it’s to consistently produce “ugly” harmonic intervals. > > If we stick to the Beatles, the last lines of “Eleanor Rigby” accomplish the most common definition (polyphony). As in several other examples already mentioned, both melodies are introduced alone earlier in the song, then combined at the end. > > Another example is the soft-shoe sendup “All For the Best,” from the musical _Godspell_. You hit it right on the mark! What I’m actually referring to is “polyphony.” I didn’t know how to put it into specifics. Now I know what I’m trying to find are polyphonic songs. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2014, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-songs-with-good-countermelodies/687937/20 "2014-05-11T12:45:28Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > As with most threads that get all technical about music, I have no clue what you people are talking about. > > Eleanor Rigby and Homeward Bound sound like perfectly normal, contiguous songs to me, as do Help and In My Life and Scarborough Fair. > > Weird. Well, there is a lead, played by the lead guitar/ lead singer. Then there is the rest of the music, played by rythm or base, sung by the chorus. In some songs, notably by Simon & Garfunkel or The Beatles, it you take the second/chorus/base line, it’s actually an interesting melody, that you can play. You notice it more if you are a backup musician: mostly you get to play boring notes, sometimes you get to play music. [Pachelbel Rant](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdxkVQy7QLM) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-songs-with-good-countermelodies/687937.md?page=2)