# Pope calls for civil union laws for same-sex couples: Homosexual people have the right to be in a family **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 21, 2020, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-calls-for-civil-union-laws-for-same-sex-couples-homosexual-people-have-the-right-to-be-in-a-family/923512 "2020-10-21T16:05:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2020, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-calls-for-civil-union-laws-for-same-sex-couples-homosexual-people-have-the-right-to-be-in-a-family/923512/1 "2020-10-21T16:05:27Z")
> **[Pope Francis calls for civil union laws for same-sex couples](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/pope-francis-civil-unions/2020/10/21/805a601c-139e-11eb-a258-614acf2b906d_story.html)** > > The pontiff’s remarks came in a new documentary and were quoted by the Catholic News Agency. They represent his clearest stance to date on a contentious issue inside the Roman Catholic Church. > **[Pope Francis endorses same-sex civil unions: They 'have the right to be in a...](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2020/10/21/pope-francis-says-lgbtq-people-should-able-have-civil-unions/6004512002/)** > > “Homosexual people have the right to be in a family. They are children of God,” Pope Francis said in a documentary. > **[In Shift for Church, Pope Francis Voices Support for Same-Sex Civil Unions...](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/21/world/europe/pope-francis-same-sex-civil-unions.html)** > > The comments, shown in a new documentary, are the strongest yet from a pontificate that has taken a more tolerant and inclusive tone. I don’t follow religious news much at all, but I always thought Catholics (except for a few religious liberals) viewed homosexuality as a sin. ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2020, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-calls-for-civil-union-laws-for-same-sex-couples-homosexual-people-have-the-right-to-be-in-a-family/923512/2 "2020-10-21T16:21:04Z")
The Catholic Church’s official stance: > 2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition ([https://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc\_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a6.htm](https://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a6.htm)) The Pope’s quote: > "They’re children of God and have a right to a family,” the pope said. “Nobody should be thrown out, or be made miserable because of it.” ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2020, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-calls-for-civil-union-laws-for-same-sex-couples-homosexual-people-have-the-right-to-be-in-a-family/923512/3 "2020-10-21T16:23:57Z")
Another move in the right direction. Give it another century or two and they’ll get there. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2020, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-calls-for-civil-union-laws-for-same-sex-couples-homosexual-people-have-the-right-to-be-in-a-family/923512/4 "2020-10-21T16:49:35Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > I don’t follow religious news much at all, but I always thought Catholics (except for a few religious liberals) viewed homosexuality as a sin. They do. The difference, if I understand correctly, is that Pope Francis is saying that we should love those sinners just as much as we love anyone else (because in the Christian religion we’re all sinners). I think it’s an attempt to approve of the person even if he continues to disapprove of some of their actions. Really, under the Catholic code of conduct, we’re all sinners - those who lie, who are envious, who swear or take God’s name in vain, who drink, who have sex not directly related to reproduction, etc., etc., yet most of us do not face the discrimination and disapproval of homosexuals. This is inconsistent. If Catholics can tolerate all sorts of other sins without disowning people, throwing them out of the church, and so forth then they should tolerate homosexuals. Assuming I understand this correctly - not being Christian I may have some of that wrong what with being an outsider. ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2020, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-calls-for-civil-union-laws-for-same-sex-couples-homosexual-people-have-the-right-to-be-in-a-family/923512/5 "2020-10-21T17:18:05Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Assuming I understand this correctly - not being Christian I may have some of that wrong what with being an outsider. So, thanks for chiming in. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2020, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-calls-for-civil-union-laws-for-same-sex-couples-homosexual-people-have-the-right-to-be-in-a-family/923512/6 "2020-10-21T17:56:16Z")
times are certainly changing. Very Catholic Ireland now allows abortion and they had a gay prime minister . The people voted to allow abortion, not just the politicians. Of course many places have legal gay marriage so this won’t matter like here in the US ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2020, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-calls-for-civil-union-laws-for-same-sex-couples-homosexual-people-have-the-right-to-be-in-a-family/923512/7 "2020-10-21T20:44:28Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > > [@PastTense](#): > > > > I don’t follow religious news much at all, but I always thought Catholics (except for a few religious liberals) viewed homosexuality as a sin. > > They do. > > The difference, if I understand correctly, is that Pope Francis is saying that we should love those sinners just as much as we love anyone else (because in the Christian religion we’re all sinners). I think it’s an attempt to approve of the person even if he continues to disapprove of some of their actions. > > Really, under the Catholic code of conduct, we’re all sinners - those who lie, who are envious, who swear or take God’s name in vain, who drink, who have sex not directly related to reproduction, etc., etc., yet most of us do not face the discrimination and disapproval of homosexuals. This is inconsistent. If Catholics can tolerate all sorts of other sins without disowning people, throwing them out of the church, and so forth then they should tolerate homosexuals. > > Assuming I understand this correctly - not being Christian I may have some of that wrong what with being an outsider. It’s a bit more then that. It’s realizing we are all sinners, yes, every one. By condemning one group of sinners, it is also condemning everyone (san Jesus), including the condemner themself. Thus making salvation impossible for everyone and negating the sacrifice Jesus made to deliver us from this system of condemnation. It is the realization that Jesus died for the salvation of everyone, and in that we should rejoice in, and not speak against it. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2020, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-calls-for-civil-union-laws-for-same-sex-couples-homosexual-people-have-the-right-to-be-in-a-family/923512/8 "2020-10-21T20:50:53Z")
This is the same Pope who recently called on Catholics to oppose the death penalty. He said it was their duty. Because when the death penalty is applied, you take a live human, and you snuff the life out of him/her. Both commendable stances, way to go Pope. (Get all that other kid stuff in order now.) ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2020, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-calls-for-civil-union-laws-for-same-sex-couples-homosexual-people-have-the-right-to-be-in-a-family/923512/9 "2020-10-21T21:15:08Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Really, under the Catholic code of conduct, we’re all sinners - those who [Snipitipapapa] have sex not directly related to reproduction This is not actually true. While Catholic doctrine is that all sex must be _open to the possibility_ of procreation (ie: no use of contraceptives, no intentional sterilization, etc), sex that is **only** for procreation is not encouraged - intercourse is for maintaining and strengthening the bond between the couple. Which is not to say that intentionally trying to have a kid is discouraged, just that it shouldn’t be the only reason you’re fuckin’. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2020, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-calls-for-civil-union-laws-for-same-sex-couples-homosexual-people-have-the-right-to-be-in-a-family/923512/10 "2020-10-22T19:29:19Z")
Here is a nearly identical thread in IMHO. I’ve notified the mods for possible combination of both or closure of one. This thread in the correct forum for news and has a much more descriptive title than does the other one. > [@Pope Francis is a Living Saint](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-francis-is-a-living-saint/923567): > > In case you didn’t hear, he is endorsing gay civil unions. He actually already supported this in his home country. So now other Christians can’t rub their homophobia in our faces anymore. Because last time I checked, Catholics were Christians. And as people like to point out, they do have a majority on the Supreme Court too. Seriously though, this is always what I liked about religion, especially the Catholic one I was brought up in. Compassion, mercy–and social justice. Does anyone else agre… ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2020, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-calls-for-civil-union-laws-for-same-sex-couples-homosexual-people-have-the-right-to-be-in-a-family/923512/11 "2020-10-22T19:43:15Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Really, under the Catholic code of conduct, we’re all sinners […] Indeed, there is the concept of original sin in Catholic doctrine. We are all sinners because we are born from the descendants of Adam & Eve who ate from the forbidden fruit, the tree of Knowledge about Good and Evil. The first step to counter this is called baptism, the second is “love thy neighbours”, the third is “show the other cheek”, the fourth is “do no throw the first stone”. Jesus was quite cool, when you read him that way (which the Catholic Church has very seldom done, admittedly, and the Catholic zealots never). The Pope, BTW, said something very similar when he was not yet the Pope but only the Cardinal of Buenos Aires. He firmly opposed marriage of same sex couples, but he was for civil unions. Saying this as the Pope, though only in an interview and not in an enciclica, is a big step forward. There is still a long way to go, but the direction is the right one. For me anyway. ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2020, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-calls-for-civil-union-laws-for-same-sex-couples-homosexual-people-have-the-right-to-be-in-a-family/923512/12 "2020-10-22T20:44:39Z")
I like Pope Francis and the direction he’s taking the Church, but it’s important to remember that Church doctrine and the beliefs of members are two different things. The majority of US Catholics (61%) support same-sex marriage (not just civil unions). Evangelicals are the group gumming up the works, so to speak, with only 29% supporting same-sex marriage, and they aren’t influenced by the Pope. ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2020, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-calls-for-civil-union-laws-for-same-sex-couples-homosexual-people-have-the-right-to-be-in-a-family/923512/13 "2020-10-23T20:34:58Z")
I just came across this, and I’m ticked, so I’ll throw it in here. # Franklin Graham Loses It After Pope Francis Backs Same-Sex Civil Unions Because Then Jesus Died ‘For Nothing’ Excerpt: _“For Pope Francis to attempt to normalize homosexuality is to say that Holy Scriptures are false, that our sins really don’t matter, and that we can continue living in them.”_ _“If that were true, then Jesus Christ’s death, burial, and resurrection wouldn’t have been needed. The cross would have been for nothing.”_ SMDH. ---
**Author:** ![Enjoy\_Slurm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/enjoy_slurm/32/3937_2.png) [@Enjoy\_Slurm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enjoy_Slurm)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2020, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-calls-for-civil-union-laws-for-same-sex-couples-homosexual-people-have-the-right-to-be-in-a-family/923512/14 "2020-10-23T21:12:58Z")
The bible does say a man shouldn’t lay with a man like he wouldeth with a woman but I don’t recall it saying, “…and if he does and isn’t shunned by society and denied basic human rights and respect and diginity then Jesus was for naught because that was the only purpose of Jesus.” TLDR: FG is tarded. EDIT: I also don’t recall it saying a woman shouldn’t lay with a woman like she wouldeth with a man. So, I guess only 50% of homosexuality is wrong in FG’s eyes. ---
**Author:** ![DorkVader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/73ab20/32.png) [@DorkVader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DorkVader)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2020, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-calls-for-civil-union-laws-for-same-sex-couples-homosexual-people-have-the-right-to-be-in-a-family/923512/15 "2020-10-24T06:30:11Z")
Go Pope Francis! FU f graham! People don’t realize what a radical liberal Yeshua actually was, that the old testament rules are the old covenant rules and not applicable under the new covenant because of centuries of bad reading and teaching. Graham you selfish prick, you’re the one that has made the crucifixion of the Messiah for naught. Dammit, I’m sorry folks, for going off like that, but mot sorry enough to not post it here ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2020, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-calls-for-civil-union-laws-for-same-sex-couples-homosexual-people-have-the-right-to-be-in-a-family/923512/16 "2020-10-24T07:27:58Z")
> [@Enjoy\_Slurm](#): > > The bible does say a man shouldn’t lay with a man like he wouldeth with a woman My interpretation of this bible verse is that a woman will try to steal the comforter, but two gay men in bed must not try this bullshit and should share the comforter equally. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2020, 9:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-calls-for-civil-union-laws-for-same-sex-couples-homosexual-people-have-the-right-to-be-in-a-family/923512/17 "2020-10-24T09:10:20Z")
Next week: How many angels on a pinhead: the definitive answer! ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2020, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-calls-for-civil-union-laws-for-same-sex-couples-homosexual-people-have-the-right-to-be-in-a-family/923512/18 "2020-10-26T12:00:13Z")
Is the “pinhead” Franklin Graham?