# Pope calls health care an "Inalienable Right". What's the right-wing spin? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 19, 2010, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-calls-health-care-an-inalienable-right-whats-the-right-wing-spin/561262 "2010-11-19T20:34:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-calls-health-care-an-inalienable-right-whats-the-right-wing-spin/561262/221 "2010-12-10T23:49:29Z")
> [@sleeping](#): > > We are quite content to provide others with the treatments that ensure continued health. In fact, most of us prefer single payer healthcare because it allows to actually keep the Hippocratic Oath by which we are supposed to be bound. Not everyone is like you. If I recall the poll I saw, only about 10% of doctors favored a single-payer option. The majority favored a public option, and about 30% favored private only. Or am I mistaken? ---
**Author:** ![sleeping](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/839c29/32.png) [@sleeping](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleeping)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-calls-health-care-an-inalienable-right-whats-the-right-wing-spin/561262/222 "2010-12-10T23:59:33Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > If I recall the poll I saw, only about 10% of doctors favored a single-payer option. The majority favored a public option, and about 30% favored private only. > > Or am I mistaken? Nope: > [@](#): > > Single-Payer National Health Insurance: Physicians’ Views > Arch Intern Med. 2004;164:300-304. > > Results: When asked which structure would provide the best care for the most people for a fixed amount of money, \*\*63.5% of physicians chose a single-payer system \*\*; 10.7%, managed care; and 25.8%, a fee-for-service system. Most respondents would give up income to reduce paperwork, agree that it is government’s responsibility to ensure the provision of medical care, believe that insurance firms should not play a major role in health care delivery, and would prefer to work under a salary system. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2010, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-calls-health-care-an-inalienable-right-whats-the-right-wing-spin/561262/223 "2010-12-11T00:45:10Z")
[Here’s the poll](http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=112818960) I was thinking of, from 2009. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2010, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-calls-health-care-an-inalienable-right-whats-the-right-wing-spin/561262/224 "2010-12-11T01:17:29Z")
> [@sleeping](#): > > Nope: And that poll doesn’t ask what they prefer – it asks them what option they think would provide care to the most people for a fixed amount ofmoney. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2010, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-calls-health-care-an-inalienable-right-whats-the-right-wing-spin/561262/225 "2010-12-11T01:22:39Z")
As if anyone with a conscience would\* not\* prefer that? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2010, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-calls-health-care-an-inalienable-right-whats-the-right-wing-spin/561262/226 "2010-12-11T13:14:36Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > It is difficult for me to imagine an explanation for the disparity between what I said (“…a much wider set of beliefs which a particular individual Catholic need not share…”) and what you summarized (“mind control”). A person under mind control doesn’t realize he/she is under mind control! ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2010, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-calls-health-care-an-inalienable-right-whats-the-right-wing-spin/561262/227 "2010-12-11T13:27:10Z")
> [@Le\_Jacquelope](#): > > Going by your logic a newborn horse is not a horse either, nor is a baby chick a chicken. Your argument reeks of semantic panic. > Brood mare? And you accuse me of religious beliefs while you come up with madness like that? Not being able to kill someone with a beating heart is slavery? Where did you come up with that one?\* > But it’s not just her body that she’s doing something with. It’s also someone else’s. Different DNA, different blood type, all of that. Measurable brain waves and heart beats, too. These are all facts established by embryology. > > “Her body”? You’re not even pushing science with your argument at this point - you’re pushing myths. That’s called religious beliefs, pardner. > Starvation will never go away no matter how many you abort. > Uhm, why are you bringing up the Roman Catholic Church? I believe in contraception. Go find a fanatical RC straw man to beat on, perhaps your arguments are better suited for them. > > - Oh yeah and before you bring it up, I also support a zero hope of escape option for fathers who try to escape child support. Once a horse is born you can tell it is a baby horse. a when the egg has formed in to a chicken it can be recognized as a chicken, until then it is just a fertile egg and in other animals once it can be recognized as it’s species then it can be called that…just as when a pollenated apple blossom once forms an apple then it can be said to be an apple. Biology is all the same in that sense. I still contend that there are means to at least try to prevent conception if a child is not wanted at that time, and methods should be made readily available to the woman. Preventing conception should be better than her needing to put herself in danger of a pregnancy, and she should have the right(which she does have by law) to use her body as she wishes not some one else making decisions for her! I wonder how many homeless women or families you have taken under your roof,or support for 18 years? You can have your right to your thinking but it shouldn’t be pushed on others, you do not know their circumstances, nor do I. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2010, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-calls-health-care-an-inalienable-right-whats-the-right-wing-spin/561262/228 "2010-12-11T13:58:42Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > A person under mind control doesn’t realize he/she is under mind control! Argumentum ad ignorantiam. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2010, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-calls-health-care-an-inalienable-right-whats-the-right-wing-spin/561262/229 "2010-12-11T16:47:11Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > As if anyone with a conscience would\* not\* prefer that? :dubious: You have to understand, to conservatives … only the rich matter. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2010, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-calls-health-care-an-inalienable-right-whats-the-right-wing-spin/561262/230 "2010-12-11T17:52:01Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > You have to understand, to conservatives … only the rich matter. Now you tell me!!! :smack: You could’ve told me yesterday before my politically conservative catholic friends and I spent Saturday morning at a Lima shantytown building houses, distributing food, clothes, gifts, a new stove for the soup kitchen book for the kids and gave them free classes for the end-of-year tests. Man! We could’ve just distributed caviar and Moët & Chandon at the country club!!! I promise you, next week it’s “FREE TUNE UP FOR HUMMERS AND BEEMERS” and none of the helping-the-poor thing. And, of course, the free clinic has got to go. ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Jacquelope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Le\_Jacquelope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Jacquelope)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2010, 9:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-calls-health-care-an-inalienable-right-whats-the-right-wing-spin/561262/231 "2010-12-12T09:49:49Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > Once a horse is born you can tell it is a baby horse. Science can tell a lot earlier than that. > [@](#): > > a when the egg has formed in to a chicken it can be recognized as a chicken Ohhkay. Yeah, I take it this is not a scientific discussion but rather one of “what it looks like to me”. Gotcha. > [@](#): > > I still contend that there are means to at least try to prevent conception Hence my support of contraception. Duh. > [@](#): > > if a child is not wanted at that time, and methods should be made readily available to the woman. Preventing conception should be better than her needing to put herself in danger of a pregnancy, and she should have the right(which she does have by law) to use her body as she wishes not some one else making decisions for her! I wish I could have availed myself of this mythical right when they asked me to sign up for selective service. :rolleyes: Once again, I’ll explain to you what science already knows: Abortion is not just about her body - it involves someone else’s. Please, before you go on with this, take a look into an embryology book. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2010, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-calls-health-care-an-inalienable-right-whats-the-right-wing-spin/561262/232 "2010-12-12T13:55:29Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Argumentum ad ignorantiam. Whose ignorance? I happen to know a lot of Latin! Because do not like to hear what I say doesn’t imply ignorance nor would i consider your argument ignorance because I disagree, or see things from a different vantage point that you! ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2010, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-calls-health-care-an-inalienable-right-whats-the-right-wing-spin/561262/233 "2010-12-12T14:08:21Z")
> [@Le\_Jacquelope](#): > > Science can tell a lot earlier than that. > Ohhkay. Yeah, I take it this is not a scientific discussion but rather one of “what it looks like to me”. Gotcha. > Hence my support of contraception. Duh. > I wish I could have availed myself of this mythical right when they asked me to sign up for selective service. :rolleyes: > > Once again, I’ll explain to you what science already knows: > Abortion is not just about her body - it involves someone else’s. > > Please, before you go on with this, take a look into an embryology book. So does a kidney implant mean somebody else’s. But you would hollar if made to give a kidney with out your wishing to. Carrying a fertile egg does involve a woman’s body, and she should have the right to decide how she can, or will use it! When you have 14 children or are carrying your 15th then let me know.Until then I agree to disagree with you. And also consider war or self defense that is also another already born person being killed, and involves the death of many innocent born children, women, and men. If one is wrong then so is the other! Oh, and I did look in an embryo book, and until a certain stage all embryo’s look alike, even a frog! They look like a tadpole. In a petri dish they just look like some cells until further developed. Think of how many little possible babies that die because a man ejaculates. or they don’t meet the ova! Because something ‘will’ become a person doesn’t make it a person, any more than an apple blossom is an apple. ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Jacquelope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Le\_Jacquelope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Jacquelope)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2010, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-calls-health-care-an-inalienable-right-whats-the-right-wing-spin/561262/234 "2010-12-12T14:23:47Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > So does a kidney implant mean somebody else’s. :smack: You seriously need to crack an embryology book if you do not understand the difference between an embryo and a kidney implant. I mean, for starters, a kidney will never grow into a teenager. > [@](#): > > But you would hollar if made to give a kidney with out your wishing to. Carrying a fertile egg does involve a woman’s body, and she should have the right to decide how she can, or will use it! What about the embryo’s choice? All this choice you keep talking about is glaringly one-sided. > [@](#): > > When you have 14 children or are carrying your 15th then let me know. It would be even more hilarious if you were child #15. I’d expect you to ask your mother to abort you. Oh wait. I forgot. The only people who are pro-choice are the ones who got the privilege of being born. > [@](#): > > Until then I agree to disagree with you. And also consider war or self defense that is also another already born person being killed, and involves the death of many innocent born children, women, and men. If one is wrong then so is the other! Ah yes, equating an unborn baby with a murderer. An embryo, Charles Manson, _what could possibly separate the two?_ > [@](#): > > Oh, and I did look in an embryo book, and until a certain stage all embryo’s look alike There’s more to it than looks. Wow. Did you really look at the words or did you just look at the pictures? ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2010, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-calls-health-care-an-inalienable-right-whats-the-right-wing-spin/561262/235 "2010-12-13T11:53:47Z")
> [@Le\_Jacquelope](#): > > :smack: > You seriously need to crack an embryology book if you do not understand the difference between an embryo and a kidney implant. I mean, for starters, a kidney will never grow into a teenager. > What about the embryo’s choice? All this choice you keep talking about is glaringly one-sided. > It would be even more hilarious if you were child #15. I’d expect you to ask your mother to abort you. Oh wait. I forgot. The only people who are pro-choice are the ones who got the privilege of being born. > Ah yes, equating an unborn baby with a murderer. > > An embryo, Charles Manson, _what could possibly separate the two?_ > There’s more to it than looks. Wow. Did you really look at the words or did you just look at the pictures? You sure mis understand me! I am talking about a woman’s right to have a child or not, how she uses her body. An embryo doesn’t have rights unless the mother gives that right to use her body. For children who are starving to death may wish they were not born and the many suicides show that do to some extent. How could I equate a embryo or a baby with Charles Manson? I sure didn’t.nor did I compare a kidney with a person, it is the use of another’s body that I have tried to show you. You wouldn’t want some one to dictate how you use your body with out your permission. That is what you are expecting the woman to do. True prolife people care about the woman’s life more than a fertile egg! Comming from a family or 14 I know the abuse one can get when it is an unwanted child, and the stress it puts on the woman and her husband. If I had not been concieved or born I would not know the difference so I would not have suffered many years of much abuse, nor would my siblings, and yes, my youngest sister wished she had never been born,and she did die young. If one doesn’t live in another’s body they do not know what another goes through, and the law of our country gives a woman a right to decide for her self how her body is used by another. It protects her from the religious view that many have regarding how she handles it. There is a point where the law does not allow a woman to abort,( before it begins to take on person hood) by then she should have made her decision unless her life is in danger. If your wife or child was in a room filled with many frozen embryo’s and it was on fire and you had the choice of taking your loved one to safety, or save just the frozen embryo’s I guess you would let your loved one’s die and save the embryo’s even if they may never reach the personhood state. If not, it shows you truly believe a born person has the right to life over a not yet formed person! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-calls-health-care-an-inalienable-right-whats-the-right-wing-spin/561262.md?page=11)