# Pope changes one line in Lord's Prayer **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [June 5, 2019, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-changes-one-line-in-lords-prayer/835098 "2019-06-05T22:03:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2019, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-changes-one-line-in-lords-prayer/835098/21 "2019-06-06T04:44:49Z")
> [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](#): > > For those who might be interested, but not enough to click through the links, the change is from “lead us not into temptation” to “do not let us fall into temptation”. According to some biblical scholars, the new translation better represents the meaning of the Latin version. Uh, that’s already how we said it in Spanish, Italian and Catalan. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2019, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-changes-one-line-in-lords-prayer/835098/22 "2019-06-06T04:51:13Z")
_Inducire_ has a weaker meaning than lead into, or at least that’s what it souds like to me and I expect to Francisco as well: obviously that “it sounds like that” doesn’t mean the difference is real, specially since English is my second language and his Nth. I can _inducire_ someone into temptation by leaving my wallet in sight; lead into sounds more like _conducire_, where I’d actively be whispering into someone’s ear to steal a third person’s wallet. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2019, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-changes-one-line-in-lords-prayer/835098/23 "2019-06-06T05:03:53Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Uh, that’s already how we said it in Spanish, Italian and Catalan. Digging deeper and checking the [link](https://www.ucatholic.com/news/pope-francis-approves-changes-to-lords-prayer-gloria-of-italian-missal/?fbclid=IwAR1pQsXEmpCVptdQnuI1NkDc4N9uko2vULj2M_JhXF9LOGt_L8xhiyOOPdY) within the link, I find myself confused. From that link, it appears that the change is to the _Italian_ missal, yet both articles are telling us _in English_ what the wording has been changed to. > [@](#): > > Pope Francis has approved a revision third edition of the Italian Missal, including changes to the Lord’s Prayer and Gloria. > > On May 22nd during the General Assembly of the Episcopal Conference of Italy, President Cardinal Gualtiero Bassetti announced the approval of a third edition of the _Messale Romano_. The revised translation will include changes to the Lord’s Prayer and Gloria. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2019, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-changes-one-line-in-lords-prayer/835098/24 "2019-06-06T05:13:11Z")
“revision third edition” isn’t exactly what I’d call good writing either; apparently the writer revised his own article but couldn’t make up his mind on which version to use. And the article also forgets to mention that the approval wasn’t as Pope but as Bishop of Rome. If you open any Catholic edition of the Bible, Catholic Book of Hours, etc. it will have a page at the beginning with the “Nihil Obstat”, the indication from the bishop whose office checked that the book in question didn’t appear to include anything untoward such as the Gospel According to the Magdalene. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2019, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-changes-one-line-in-lords-prayer/835098/25 "2019-06-06T05:20:24Z")
Searching for Padre Nostro takes me to an [Italian article](https://roma.corriere.it/notizie/cronaca/18_novembre_15/cambia-testo-padre-nostro-dio-non-ci-puo-indurre-tentazione-9a40c396-e8d4-11e8-b58d-37a073f6910a.shtml?refresh_ce-cp) which explains the old official version was _Dio non ci può indurre in tentazione_ (God do not induce us to temptation, but keep in mind that this is “induce” is pretty weak) and has been changed to _(Dio) non abbandonarci alla tentazione_ (God do not abandon us to temptation). Why the English reporters couldn’t be arsed explain this is a matter for another day (and I’d say at least one batch of three Hail Marys in Italian, one in English and one in Latin). ---
**Author:** ![Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mean_mr.mustard/32/3865_2.png) [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mean_Mr.Mustard)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2019, 9:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-changes-one-line-in-lords-prayer/835098/26 "2019-06-06T09:57:56Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Or possibly to ----, --------- or ----- — -----------. I’m assuming that last word is “masturbate”, but I cannot figure out the rest. mmm ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2019, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-changes-one-line-in-lords-prayer/835098/27 "2019-06-06T11:32:28Z")
> [@Kent\_Clark](#): > > It sounds to me like the entire line is being taken out of context. “Lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.” > > In other words, {Please be a just and merciful God and} lead us not into temptation, but {as a just and merciful God would do} deliver us from evil. But Jesus doesn’t use the word God here, but Father, or perhaps more accurately, ‘Daddy’, this is a child talking to his pop. Not a human talking to his God. This is 2 equal status ‘beings’, one differentiated by parent/child and not God/subject. It is also Jesus’ instruction that we pray that way, as the child. As such a request by a child to be just and merciful doesn’t play so well as that is what a perfect parent should be. It makes a lot more sense in terms of God and human subject, but that’s not the meaning of the Lord’s Prayer. I do suspect something got lost in the translation, and the drifting of the english language. I take it more as watch over us and make sure our path does not lead us into temptation. In other words requesting intervention, stating we are too young and need help, acknowledging we need that help and appreciate it. In that I have seen a child ask a parent for such help with things in their own ways (to remove things, or not place/leave things that may tempt them), actually more then one child who have asked that. I believe we have child parent family structure so we can know the relationship between God and us and see it in our world which is visible, so we can relate it to what is usually hidden and invisible to us, but just as real, actually more so. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2019, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-changes-one-line-in-lords-prayer/835098/28 "2019-06-06T12:20:31Z")
FWIW, the Lutheran line is “save us from the time of trial”. And the explanation is - > [@Luther's Small Catechism](#): > > **What does this mean?** > > God certainly tempts no one to sin, but we pray in this petition that God would guard and keep us so that the devil, the world and our own flesh may not deceive us nor lead us into misbelief, despair and other shameful sin and vice; and though we be thus tempted, that we may still in the end overcome and retain the victory. And the Roman Catholic explanation is > [@](#): > > For what do we pray when we say “and lead us not into temptation”? > > When we say “and lead us not into temptation,” we pray that God will always give us the grace to overcome the temptations to sin which come to us from the world, the flesh, and the devil. [Cite](https://www.catholicity.com/baltimore-catechism/lesson38.html). Better scholars than me are invited to correct me. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2019, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-changes-one-line-in-lords-prayer/835098/29 "2019-06-06T17:33:25Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > FWIW, the Lutheran line is “save us from the time of trial”. And the explanation is - And the Roman Catholic explanation is [Cite](https://www.catholicity.com/baltimore-catechism/lesson38.html). > > Better scholars than me are invited to correct me. > > Regards, > Shodan I don’t go to church that often, but when I do, it’s a Lutheran church. They say, “lead us not into temptation” at that one. I think it was ELCA and is now NALC, but the pastor is the same. Are there different Lord’s Prayers for different flavors of Lutheran? ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_T-Cups](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Sir\_T-Cups](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_T-Cups)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2019, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-changes-one-line-in-lords-prayer/835098/30 "2019-06-06T18:37:19Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > FWIW, the Lutheran line is “save us from the time of trial”. And the explanation is - And the Roman Catholic explanation is [Cite](https://www.catholicity.com/baltimore-catechism/lesson38.html). > > Better scholars than me are invited to correct me. > > Regards, > Shodan > [@RitterSport](#): > > I don’t go to church that often, but when I do, it’s a Lutheran church. They say, “lead us not into temptation” at that one. I think it was ELCA and is now NALC, but the pastor is the same. > > Are there different Lord’s Prayers for different flavors of Lutheran? I grew up exclusively Lutheran and said “lead us not into temptation” every time. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2019, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-changes-one-line-in-lords-prayer/835098/31 "2019-06-07T03:02:38Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > FWIW, the Lutheran line is “save us from the time of trial”. That’s an international ecumenical\* version from 1975. I’m a Baptist/Presbyterian, so I didn’t hear it very often 🙂 \*(I only heard it in an RC service) ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2019, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-changes-one-line-in-lords-prayer/835098/32 "2019-06-07T04:12:40Z")
> [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](#): > > I’m assuming that last word is “masturbate”, but I cannot figure out the rest. > mmmm You always assume that the last word is “masturbate”. This seems like a pretty commonly already accepted interpretation, so good job, I guess. It does seem weird to implore God to not lead us to be tempted. Unless, they read Job. Then they’d have reason to be worried. ---
**Author:** ![Rushgeekgirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rushgeekgirl/32/3715_2.png) [@Rushgeekgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rushgeekgirl)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2019, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-changes-one-line-in-lords-prayer/835098/33 "2019-06-07T05:24:58Z")
Well it’s good he’s tackling the important stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2019, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-changes-one-line-in-lords-prayer/835098/34 "2019-06-07T14:39:46Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > I don’t go to church that often, but when I do, it’s a Lutheran church. They say, “lead us not into temptation” at that one. I think it was ELCA and is now NALC, but the pastor is the same. > > Are there different Lord’s Prayers for different flavors of Lutheran? Yes, and sometimes for different churches. ELCA is “save us from the time of trial”, usually. NALC is kind of old school. ELCA, Missouri Synod, and WELS - three churches, one pension plan, and eight million hot dish recipes. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2019, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-changes-one-line-in-lords-prayer/835098/35 "2019-06-07T14:47:34Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > … > ELCA, Missouri Synod, and WELS - three churches, one pension plan, and eight million hot dish recipes. > … 😃 I lol’d. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2019, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-changes-one-line-in-lords-prayer/835098/36 "2019-06-07T22:37:17Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Yes, and sometimes for different churches. ELCA is “save us from the time of trial”, usually. NALC is kind of old school. > > ELCA, Missouri Synod, and WELS - three churches, one pension plan, and eight million hot dish recipes. > > Regards, > Shodan My ELCA congregation is so old school, we still use the Nicene Creed one Sunday each month. We say, “lead us not into temptation.” ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2019, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-changes-one-line-in-lords-prayer/835098/37 "2019-06-07T23:53:54Z")
ELCA congregations say both. One is ‘traditional’ and one is ‘contemporary’. My church says both (which one depends on the time of the liturgical year) - though we do the traditional more often. We also say the Nicene Creed, Apostles Creed, or no Creed depending on the time of year as well. Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2019, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-changes-one-line-in-lords-prayer/835098/38 "2019-06-08T01:48:24Z")
I dunno, I’m sure some will be torqued. I know people still bitter about Vatican II. ---
**Author:** ![I.Dunno](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9f8e36/32.png) [@I.Dunno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I.Dunno)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2019, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-changes-one-line-in-lords-prayer/835098/39 "2019-06-09T01:45:29Z")
\*\* > [@Shodan](#): > > Yes, and sometimes for different churches. ELCA is “save us from the time of trial”, usually. NALC is kind of old school. > > _ **ELCA, Missouri Synod, and WELS - three churches, one pension plan, and eight million hot dish recipes.** _ > > Regards, > Shodan I’m a collapsed Catholic but I know enough Lutherans that I also found this hilarious. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2019, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-changes-one-line-in-lords-prayer/835098/40 "2019-06-09T03:14:59Z")
> [@Rushgeekgirl](#): > > Well it’s good he’s tackling the important stuff. But this IS very important stuff. Within a few months you will see church authorities saying how their helpless priests were led into temptation by those shameless altar boys. And then church lawyers claiming that is a valid defense in court. The Pope has to plan far in advance, and move in small steps. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-changes-one-line-in-lords-prayer/835098.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-changes-one-line-in-lords-prayer/835098.md?page=3)