# Pope Francis endorses an independent Palestine **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [May 26, 2014, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-francis-endorses-an-independent-palestine/689256 "2014-05-26T01:06:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2014, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-francis-endorses-an-independent-palestine/689256/1 "2014-05-26T01:06:23Z")
While visiting Israel. [Story here.](http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/26/world/middleeast/pope-francis-west-bank.html?_r=1) > [@](#): > > JERUSALEM — Pope Francis inserted himself directly into the collapsed Middle East peace process on Sunday, issuing an invitation to host the Israeli and Palestinian presidents for a prayer summit at his apartment in the Vatican in an unexpected overture that has again underscored the broad ambitions of his papacy. > > Francis took the extraordinary step in Bethlehem, where he became the first pontiff ever to fly directly into the West Bank and to refer to the Israeli-occupied territory as the “State of Palestine.” > > The pope then made a dramatic, unscheduled stop to bow his head at Israel’s contentious security barrier separating Bethlehem from Jerusalem, and denounced the overall situation as “increasingly unacceptable.” > > \ > > The pope is “taking the negotiations to another level – a meeting in front of God,” said the Rev. Jamal Khadar, head of a West Bank seminary and a spokesman for the pope’s visit. The idea, he added, is to “make religion part of trying to find a solution instead of it being seen as a negative and a complication.” OK, but, what’s the point? The people involved might be religious, but they are not Catholic or even Christian; why would they listen to the Pope? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2014, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-francis-endorses-an-independent-palestine/689256/2 "2014-05-26T02:29:04Z")
It’s a step in the right direction. Now we just need the Palestinians to get on board with the idea of a free and independent Palestine. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2014, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-francis-endorses-an-independent-palestine/689256/3 "2014-05-26T02:33:08Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > While visiting Israel. [Story here.](http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/26/world/middleeast/pope-francis-west-bank.html?_r=1) > > OK, but, what’s the point? The people involved might be religious, but they are not Catholic or even Christian; why would they listen to the Pope? Well, if they’re looking for an impartial mediator, he can’t very well be a Muslim or a Jew. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2014, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-francis-endorses-an-independent-palestine/689256/4 "2014-05-26T03:46:30Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > While visiting Israel. [Story here.](http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/26/world/middleeast/pope-francis-west-bank.html?_r=1) > > OK, but, what’s the point? The people involved might be religious, but they are not Catholic or even Christian; why would they listen to the Pope? Well, an article I read mentioned that he brought along a rabbi and an imam that were friends of his from Argentina. So, at least they can serve as a small example and speak more convincingly to those of their own faith. Can’t hurt to try, at least. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2014, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-francis-endorses-an-independent-palestine/689256/5 "2014-05-26T04:29:57Z")
Pope Frankie hasn’t said anything most world leaders and many Israeli politicians haven’t already said. Still, if he wants to lend a hand as a mediator, he’s welcome to try. He seems like a nice guy, and besides, he can’t be worse than Kerry. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2014, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-francis-endorses-an-independent-palestine/689256/6 "2014-05-26T04:42:58Z")
> [@voltaire](#): > > Well, an article I read mentioned that he brought along a rabbi and an imam that were friends of his from Argentina. Did they all go into a bar? ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2014, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-francis-endorses-an-independent-palestine/689256/7 "2014-05-26T04:53:37Z")
The Pope, an imam and a rabbi walk into a bar… Ow! ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2014, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-francis-endorses-an-independent-palestine/689256/8 "2014-05-26T06:50:19Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > While visiting Israel. [Story here.](http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/26/world/middleeast/pope-francis-west-bank.html?_r=1) > OK, but, what’s the point? The people involved might be religious, but they are not Catholic or even Christian; why would they listen to the Pope? Maybe some Americans will listen, however. If it wasn’t for the virtually unquestioning American support their governments get the Israelis would not have been able to say “up yours!” to everything both the Palestinians and most of the rest of the world have been trying to get them to do (or stop doing, like building Jewish settlements on all the best bits of Palestinian land) for decades. > [@Smapti](#): > > It’s a step in the right direction. > > Now we just need the Palestinians to get on board with the idea of a free and independent Palestine. Is that meant to be some kind of joke, or are you just a moron? Are you really not aware that that is exactly what the Palestinians want and what the Israelis have been obstructing for many years now, as they continually snip away more and more of Palestinian land. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2014, 8:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-francis-endorses-an-independent-palestine/689256/9 "2014-05-26T08:58:42Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > Is that meant to be some kind of joke, or are you just a moron? Are you really not aware that that is exactly what the Palestinians want and what the Israelis have been obstructing for many years now, as they continually snip away more and more of Palestinian land. What the Palestinians want is to drive the Jews to the sea by force and/or open up Israel to unrestricted Arab/Muslim immgration and undermine the state demographically. I understand that Fatah has become decidedly less radical in recent years, but the Palestinians who are interested in actually running a functional government are not yet capable of controlling those of their lot who prefer to fire off rockets at civilian targets. The Israeli hardliners aren’t exactly helping the situation either. ---
**Author:** ![blindboyard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blindboyard/32/2833_2.png) [@blindboyard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blindboyard)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2014, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-francis-endorses-an-independent-palestine/689256/10 "2014-05-26T11:08:09Z")
You know, about a tenth of the Palestinians in Palestine _are_ Christian, and about a third of the Palestinian people as a whole. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2014, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-francis-endorses-an-independent-palestine/689256/11 "2014-05-26T11:57:48Z")
> [@blindboyard](#): > > You know, about a tenth of the Palestinians in Palestine _are_ Christian, and about a third of the Palestinian people as a whole. Most of them aren’t Catholic, though. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2014, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-francis-endorses-an-independent-palestine/689256/12 "2014-05-26T12:24:52Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > What the Palestinians want is to drive the Jews to the sea by force and/or open up Israel to unrestricted Arab/Muslim immgration and undermine the state demographically. I understand that Fatah has become decidedly less radical in recent years, but the Palestinians who are interested in actually running a functional government are not yet capable of controlling those of their lot who prefer to fire off rockets at civilian targets. > > The Israeli hardliners aren’t exactly helping the situation either. Quite true, but there’s an unwritten rule about independence movements. When they get their independence, they STOP FIGHTING. The Palestinians want a state, and they also want war with Israel. They cannot have both. Since a war with Israel would involve the conquering of the Palestinian state, it’s an empty exercise to give the Palestinians a state until they agree to a permanent peace once they get their state. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2014, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-francis-endorses-an-independent-palestine/689256/13 "2014-05-26T13:50:49Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > Did they all go into a bar? And the bartender said, “What is this, some kind of joke?!” ---
**Author:** ![phouka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c5a1d2/32.png) [@phouka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phouka)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2014, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-francis-endorses-an-independent-palestine/689256/14 "2014-05-26T18:06:34Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > While visiting Israel. [Story here.](http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/26/world/middleeast/pope-francis-west-bank.html?_r=1) > > OK, but, what’s the point? The people involved might be religious, but they are not Catholic or even Christian; why would they listen to the Pope? Because the pope is a world leader and a man of singular power, position, and respect. Because the pope is the leader of one of the Abrahamic faiths and thus, even if he isn’t of the same faith, his principles are based upon the some of the same holy texts and basic theology. Because, as a Christian, he is bound by Jesus’s instructions to love his neighbors, and taken to its logical conclusion, that means acting as a peacemaker where possible. You don’t have to be a Christian to accept that. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-francis-endorses-an-independent-palestine/689256/15 "2014-05-27T13:34:19Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > Well, if they’re looking for an impartial mediator, he can’t very well be a Muslim or a Jew. Will the Israelis accept anyone as an “impartial mediator” who endorses a two-state solution right out of the gate? From their POV, that is itself a negotiable point. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-francis-endorses-an-independent-palestine/689256/16 "2014-05-27T13:39:36Z")
The Israelis are pretty well settled on a two state solution at this point. That’s why they pulled out of Gaza. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-francis-endorses-an-independent-palestine/689256/17 "2014-05-27T14:57:55Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The Israelis are pretty well settled on a two state solution at this point. That’s why they pulled out of Gaza. They can’t really be said to be “settled” on that point until they settle what to do with the settlements. There were few Israelis living in Gaza, but there are half a million living in the West Bank. The IDF can’t guarantee their safety if they fall under the jurisdiction of an independent Palestine, and they’re not willing to pull up stakes and move west. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-francis-endorses-an-independent-palestine/689256/18 "2014-05-27T17:17:14Z")
That’s a detail of implementing a two state solution. One that’s not that hard to resolve if they want to. Jewish settlers would become Palestinian citizens and be subject to Palestinian laws(and Palestinians would have to treat them equally), or they can move back to Israel. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-francis-endorses-an-independent-palestine/689256/19 "2014-05-27T22:38:20Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > That’s a detail of implementing a two state solution. One that’s not that hard to resolve if they want to. Jewish settlers would become Palestinian citizens and be subject to Palestinian laws(and Palestinians would have to treat them equally), or they can move back to Israel. Well, that’s the problem right there; the settlers – who vote and have political supporters – would find both options completely unacceptable. And, then there’s the question of which country gets the territory between the Green Line and [the Wall](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Bank_Wall); Palestine probably can’t be economically viable without that territory. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2014, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-francis-endorses-an-independent-palestine/689256/20 "2014-05-28T00:32:34Z")
Palestine isn’t economically viable anyway. It will always be dependent on Israel and Jordan and Egypt, it’s just too small even if it was geographically contiguous. Their territory’s pretty barren too, I’m not sure what they’d sell other than their human capital.