# Pope John Paul II is not deserving of sainthood **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 27, 2014, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-john-paul-ii-is-not-deserving-of-sainthood/687120 "2014-04-27T15:36:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2014, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-john-paul-ii-is-not-deserving-of-sainthood/687120/61 "2014-04-29T13:37:39Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > I think popularity is as good a test as any other for sainthood. Get Ryan Seacrest to host and we can make bank with this. \*Beatific Idol \*would be an ironically delicious name for a show. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2014, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-john-paul-ii-is-not-deserving-of-sainthood/687120/62 "2014-04-29T16:32:47Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Any other Nazi saints? [Pope Pius XII](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canonization_of_Pope_Pius_XII) is pretty close to being canonized, and, [depending on](http://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=6648) [which historians](http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/claims-that-pius-xii-was-framed-gaining-support/) [you believe](http://www.wnd.com/2005/01/28445/), awfully complicit in [helping the Nazis deport Italian Jews.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitler's_Pope) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2014, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-john-paul-ii-is-not-deserving-of-sainthood/687120/63 "2014-04-29T18:55:25Z")
[Ooh! Jeffrey Tayler nails it, hand and foot!](http://www.salon.com/2014/04/28/these_popes_are_not_saints_time_for_the_media_to_stop_believing_in_miracles/) ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2014, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-john-paul-ii-is-not-deserving-of-sainthood/687120/64 "2014-04-29T20:27:36Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > [Pope Pius XII](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canonization_of_Pope_Pius_XII) is pretty close to being canonized, and, [depending on](http://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=6648) [which historians](http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/claims-that-pius-xii-was-framed-gaining-support/) [you believe](http://www.wnd.com/2005/01/28445/), awfully complicit in [helping the Nazis deport Italian Jews.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitler's_Pope) But not an actual member of a Nazi organization, as the last guy was. Yeah, yeah, “I never wanted to join” is what ALL the ex Hitler Youth guys say. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2014, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-john-paul-ii-is-not-deserving-of-sainthood/687120/65 "2014-04-29T20:31:27Z")
[That’s a little unfair](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Benedict_XVI#Early_life:_1927.E2.80.9351), not that Ratzinger doesn’t have a lot else to atone for. > [@](#): > > Ratzinger’s family, especially his father, bitterly resented the Nazis, and his father’s opposition to Nazism resulted in demotions and harassment of the family.[12] Following his 14th birthday in 1941, Ratzinger was conscripted into the Hitler Youth—as membership was required by law for all 14-year-old German boys after March 1939[13]—but was an unenthusiastic member who refused to attend meetings, according to his brother.[14] In 1941, one of Ratzinger’s cousins, a 14-year-old boy with Down syndrome, was taken away by the Nazi regime and murdered during the Action T4 campaign of Nazi eugenics.[15] In 1943, while still in seminary, he was drafted into the German anti-aircraft corps as Luftwaffenhelfer (air force child soldier).[14] Ratzinger then trained in the German infantry.[16] As the Allied front drew closer to his post in 1945, he deserted back to his family’s home in Traunstein after his unit had ceased to exist, just as American troops established a headquarters in the Ratzinger household. ---
**Author:** ![BigAppleBucky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigapplebucky/32/178_2.png) [@BigAppleBucky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigAppleBucky)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2014, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-john-paul-ii-is-not-deserving-of-sainthood/687120/66 "2014-04-30T00:09:18Z")
This thread could be combined with the Joe Paterno thread. If there eventually are statues of the two of them, they should have blindfolds. ---
**Author:** ![Cumberdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@Cumberdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cumberdale)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2014, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-john-paul-ii-is-not-deserving-of-sainthood/687120/67 "2014-04-30T01:47:28Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Peter chickened out after Christ was arrested, and denied even having been with Him – not once, but three times. > > He was, in other words, a “deeply flawed” model of holiness, too. > > Any objections to his being a saint? How about addressing the actual topic rather than your usual deflection. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2014, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-john-paul-ii-is-not-deserving-of-sainthood/687120/68 "2014-04-30T01:51:30Z")
Now I’m wondering why every single pope is not named a saint. Think about it. God chooses the pope through the cardinals. So it stands to reason only a saintish person would chosen. They must _all_ be saints, eh? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2014, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-john-paul-ii-is-not-deserving-of-sainthood/687120/69 "2014-04-30T02:17:21Z")
> [@BigAppleBucky](#): > > This thread could be combined with the Joe Paterno thread. > > If there eventually are statues of the two of them, they should have blindfolds. I can see why people have issues with John Paul, but John XXIII? Seriously? ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2014, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-john-paul-ii-is-not-deserving-of-sainthood/687120/70 "2014-04-30T03:36:59Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > Now I’m wondering why every single pope is not named a saint. Think about it. God chooses the pope through the cardinals. So it stands to reason only a saintish person would chosen. They must _all_ be saints, eh? Most popes are kind of boring, aren’t they? I mean, as a liturgically conservative atheist whose main interest in the whole pope thing is the trappings of an absolute monarch, I kind of liked [old Benny Foursquare](http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_6dKQTchkJaA/TA8rQLQqylI/AAAAAAAATKE/tRG7_Co6z-4/s400/pope-benedict-xvi.jpg), but I don’t know that he inspired people so much so that they’ll keep rooting for him after his death. The most memorable thing he did was quit, wasn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2014, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-john-paul-ii-is-not-deserving-of-sainthood/687120/71 "2014-04-30T07:30:35Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > I can see why people have issues with John Paul, but John XXIII? Seriously? **Guin** , I think “both of them” refers to “JPII and Paterno”. But wouldn’t Paterno be holding the blindfold in his hand and offering it to the viewer? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2014, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-john-paul-ii-is-not-deserving-of-sainthood/687120/72 "2014-04-30T08:02:25Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > Now I’m wondering why every single pope is not named a saint. Think about it. God chooses the pope through the cardinals. So it stands to reason only a saintish person would chosen. They must _all_ be saints, eh? I’m imagining that there aren’t many people directing intercessory prayers to, say, Alexander VI. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2014, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-john-paul-ii-is-not-deserving-of-sainthood/687120/73 "2014-04-30T15:31:54Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I’m imagining that there aren’t many people directing intercessory prayers to, say, Alexander VI. Speak for yourself! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2014, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-john-paul-ii-is-not-deserving-of-sainthood/687120/74 "2014-04-30T15:45:26Z")
If you’re not a Roman Catholic what the fuck are you worrying about who gets a sainthood and who doesn’t? It’s meaningless to non-believers. It’s as if I were the head of the Flying Spaghetti Monster cult and having said that some dead guy would be made a Sacred Noodle you wrote indignantly saying he wasn’t worthy of it. It’s all bullshit, claptrap, superstitious nonsense. No rational person gives a flying fuck about any of it. Just smile indulgently at their silly antics and move on. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2014, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-john-paul-ii-is-not-deserving-of-sainthood/687120/75 "2014-04-30T16:09:06Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > If you’re not a Roman Catholic what the fuck are you worrying about who gets a sainthood and who doesn’t? Because the rest of us have to live in a world where the RCC is an important sociopolitical force, much more so than any other religious organization of any faith, and this kind of thing reflects on the Church’s general direction. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2014, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-john-paul-ii-is-not-deserving-of-sainthood/687120/76 "2014-05-01T01:03:37Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > **Guin** , I think “both of them” refers to “JPII and Paterno”. But wouldn’t Paterno be holding the blindfold in his hand and offering it to the viewer? :smack: ---
**Author:** ![the\_diego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@the\_diego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_diego)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2014, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-john-paul-ii-is-not-deserving-of-sainthood/687120/77 "2014-05-01T01:59:08Z")
You guys are confusing me again. What’s wrong with simply “having” to preside over a spate of scandals involving the priesthood? ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2014, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-john-paul-ii-is-not-deserving-of-sainthood/687120/78 "2014-05-01T21:53:38Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Didn’t the Catholic Church used to have a 25-year period after someone’s death before they could be canonized? Or is that my faulty memory? It’s the Disneyfication of the Catholic Church. Pope John Paul II, instead of being examined through the long and careful lens of a few decades of reflection and analysis, is an “Instant Classic!” Saint. Considering the immense lengths that man went to to protect, cover up, whitewash over, transfer, hide and otherwise deny the legions of collar-toting child rapists in His employ, I kinda was hoping for " Instant Classic! Sinner ", instead of Saint. Oh well. It doesn’t change what he was or the atrocities he assisted. ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2014, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-john-paul-ii-is-not-deserving-of-sainthood/687120/79 "2014-05-01T21:55:33Z")
> [@Cumberdale](#): > > How about addressing the actual topic rather than your usual deflection. –Clucking tongue-- Now, now, we know better. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-john-paul-ii-is-not-deserving-of-sainthood/687120/80 "2014-05-02T00:05:10Z")
> [@Cartooniverse](#): > > It’s the Disneyfication of the Catholic Church. Pope John Paul II, instead of being examined through the long and careful lens of a few decades of reflection and analysis, is an “Instant Classic!” Saint. > > Considering the immense lengths that man went to to protect, cover up, whitewash over, transfer, hide and otherwise deny the legions of collar-toting child rapists in His employ, I kinda was hoping for " Instant Classic! Sinner ", instead of Saint. If being a sinner disqualified you from canonization, there wouldn’t be _any_ saints. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-john-paul-ii-is-not-deserving-of-sainthood/687120.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-john-paul-ii-is-not-deserving-of-sainthood/687120.md?page=5)