# Pope rants about gay marriage again **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 13, 2006, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-rants-about-gay-marriage-again/356673 "2006-05-13T21:33:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2006, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-rants-about-gay-marriage-again/356673/1 "2006-05-13T21:33:10Z")
[Link](http://in.today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=worldNews&storyID=2006-05-13T233618Z_01_NOOTR_RTRJONC_0_India-249103-1.xml&archived=Falseurl) > [@](#): > > VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - Pope Benedict renewed his attack on gay marriage on Saturday, saying Christians must defend traditional heterosexual marriage as a “pillar of humanity” benefiting both believers and non-believers. > > Calling on the faithful to stand up for traditional notions of marriage and procreation in the face of moves to recognise gay marriage, he said: "Such a witness can only stimulate politicians and legislators to safeguard the rights of the family. > > “It’s well known that legal solutions like so-called ‘civil unions’ are gaining ever greater acceptance, even if, while they exclude the responsibilities of marriage, they claim the same rights,” he said in a speech to the Ponitifical Council for the Family. > > “Sometimes, there is the wish even to change the definition of marriage to legalise homosexual unions, granting them the right to adopt children.” Once again, we see that the Catholic Church is headed by a bigot. Not to mention, a supposedly celibate man has no place making speeches on subjects like marriage. I also like this quote : > [@Clemente Mastella](#): > > “In parliament there’s a cross-party majority to stop this secular attack on the institution of family based on marriage between man and woman,” said Clemente Mastella, leader of the UDEUR, a small Christian Democrat group in Prodi’s coalition. Yeah, because letting gays marry is the same as outlawing the marrage of straights. I wish Pope Palpatine and his Bronze Age minions would all shut up and go live on an island somewhere, and stop trying to enforce the archaic laws of an evil and fictional God. Failing that, I wish the relatively sane Catholics would just leave the damned church and let him and his buddies rot. Not that it’ll happen; if molesting Catholic kids won’t drive away the Catholics, nothing will. The Catholic laity reminds me of the battered wife who won’t leave her abusive husband, no matter how brutal. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2006, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-rants-about-gay-marriage-again/356673/2 "2006-05-13T22:13:28Z")
> [@Der Trihs](#): > > The Catholic laity reminds me of the battered wife who won’t leave her abusive husband, no matter how brutal. Pay closer attention. Church attendance is down, way down. They’re having trouble finding clergy. At least in much of the industrialized world, the Church is bleeding to death, slowly but surely. Takes awhile for something that big to die, ya know. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2006, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-rants-about-gay-marriage-again/356673/3 "2006-05-13T22:36:02Z")
Erm, the pope is leader of an organised religion with a set of codes morals and rules which Catholics should adhere too, why in the world would/should he in his mind bring down those rules to appease certain sections of society he considers immoral? > [@](#): > > I wish Pope Palpatine and his Bronze Age minions would all shut up and go live on an island somewhere, and stop trying to enforce the archaic laws of an evil and fictional God. Failing that, I wish the relatively sane Catholics would just leave the damned church and let him and his buddies rot. Not that it’ll happen; if molesting Catholic kids won’t drive away the Catholics, nothing will. The Catholic laity reminds me of the battered wife who won’t leave her abusive husband, no matter how brutal. Do you consider the same wishes for the Muslim religious leadership? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2006, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-rants-about-gay-marriage-again/356673/4 "2006-05-13T22:42:52Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > Do you consider the same wishes for the Muslim religious leadership? Am I the only one who’s getting fed up with this particular brainless attempt at a “gotcha”? Christians who hate gays are bigots. Muslims who hate gays are bigots. And posters who try to deflect any criticism of a Christian worshipper or Chistian institution by asking, “What if a Muslim did it?” are fucking morons. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Clam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3bc359/32.png) [@Happy\_Clam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Clam)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2006, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-rants-about-gay-marriage-again/356673/5 "2006-05-13T22:43:03Z")
> [@](#): > > Do you consider the same wishes for the Muslim religious leadership? Well, there is no centralised “Muslim religous leadership”, and even if there were, I’d imagine the OP would feel the same way, given that their views on homosexuality (and sexuality in general) are even less tolerant. But why would that be an issue? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2006, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-rants-about-gay-marriage-again/356673/6 "2006-05-13T22:50:46Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > Erm, the pope is leader of an organised religion with a set of codes morals and rules which Catholics should adhere too, why in the world would/should he in his mind bring down those rules to appease certain sections of society he considers immoral? Because those rules are bigoted. I don’t care if he thinks they come from God; that just means he worships a bigot. > [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > Do you consider the same wishes for the Muslim religious leadership? First, they have nothing to do with this story. Second, I despise _all_ religion; I just brought up the Pope and Catholicism because he shot off his mouth, and because Catholicism is powerful in Western culture. Third, they were founded later; so I’d refer to “Mullah Whatshisname and his _Iron Age_ minions” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![black\_rabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f19dbf/32.png) [@black\_rabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/black_rabbit)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2006, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-rants-about-gay-marriage-again/356673/7 "2006-05-13T22:54:14Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > Erm, the pope is leader of an organised religion with a set of codes morals and rules which Catholics should adhere too, why in the world would/should he in his mind bring down those rules to appease certain sections of society he considers immoral? Because it’s fucking bigoted. I respect the shit outta the love thy number, turn the other cheek, feed the hungry part of their faith, I’m perfectly happy telling the rest of my family to go fuck themselves re: religion, because it’s the height of hypocracy to preach that “love thy neighbor” shit and then effectivly condemn _my_ neighbors (literally - Adam and Steve live in the next apartment) to second-class citizenship. Fuck Ratzi, and fuck his ass-backwards Church. > [@](#): > > Do you consider the same wishes for the Muslim religious leadership? To the extent that there _is_ a “Muslim religious leadership,” you betcha. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2006, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-rants-about-gay-marriage-again/356673/8 "2006-05-13T23:02:48Z")
New Pope highlights an interesting contradiction i’ve noticed in some anti-gay marriage folks. > [@](#): > > “It’s well known that legal solutions like so-called ‘civil unions’ are gaining ever greater acceptance, even if, while they exclude the responsibilities of marriage, they claim the same rights,” he said in a speech to the Ponitifical Council for the Family. > [@](#): > > “Sometimes, there is the wish even to change the definition of marriage to legalise homosexual unions, granting them the right to adopt children.” > [@](#): > > “In parliament there’s a cross-party majority to stop this secular attack on the institution of family based on marriage between man and woman,” said Clemente Mastella, leader of the UDEUR, a small Christian Democrat group in Prodi’s coalition. So, gay marriage is wrong, because they don’t want the responsibilities associated with marriage, only the benefits. But gay marriage is also wrong, because they want to be able to raise children, a responsibility. How can someone claim (and yes, i’m aware the third quote is not from New Pope) that gay marriage is a threat to traditions of family and responsibility _and_ attack gay people for wanting the chance to raise a family? It’s a total logic disconnect. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2006, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-rants-about-gay-marriage-again/356673/9 "2006-05-13T23:35:34Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > Do you consider the same wishes for the Muslim religious leadership? What responses did you actually expect with this question? “We hate Catholicism, so we love Islam! It’s OK when THEY discriminate against gays!” and then you were gonna lay the smack-down on them, pointing out the subtle hypocrisy? Seriously, what was your expectation here? ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2006, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-rants-about-gay-marriage-again/356673/10 "2006-05-14T00:03:18Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > Erm, the pope is leader of an organised religion with a set of codes morals and rules which Catholics should adhere too, why in the world would/should he in his mind bring down those rules to appease certain sections of society he considers immoral? The last one redefined Catholic-Jewish relations by urging Catholics to stop thinking of Jews as potential Catholics. Popes can and should change church doctrine to be more tolerant and modern. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2006, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-rants-about-gay-marriage-again/356673/11 "2006-05-14T00:10:36Z")
Is the Pope Catholic? > [@Der Trihs](#): > > Once again, we see that the Catholic Church is headed by a bigot. Not to mention, a supposedly celibate man has no place making speeches on subjects like marriage. “supposedly celibate”? While I don’t agree with the pope on this issue, I don’t think his celebacy is relevant. Would you rather hear from a married man, like James Dobson? ---
**Author:** ![Denis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5e9695/32.png) [@Denis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Denis)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2006, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-rants-about-gay-marriage-again/356673/12 "2006-05-14T00:40:32Z")
The astounding arrogance of the Church hierarchy is one of the many reasons I left the Church. Well, that and not believing there is a god. 😉 While I don’t go so far as to despise religion, I definitely despise the religious who think it is their business to have secular laws enforcing their doctrine. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2006, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-rants-about-gay-marriage-again/356673/13 "2006-05-14T01:12:55Z")
> [@Thudlow Boink](#): > > Is the Pope Catholic?“supposedly celibate”? > > While I don’t agree with the pope on this issue, I don’t think his celebacy is relevant. Would you rather hear from a married man, like James Dobson? On average I’m going to trust a married person’s opinion on marriage more than an unmarried ones. A Catholic priest ( save some Episcopal converts IIRC ) is either going to be celibate ( and therefore ignorant of intimate relationships ) or a liar and hypocrite ( and therefore not to be trusted ). Either way, I give their opinions on marriage and sex and children zero credibility. Being married or just having sex doesn’t make one a relationship guru, but it does give one an experience base with which to make judgements; I wouldn’t trust a Catholic priest’s advice on marriage any more than I would trust the average ten year olds. ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2006, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-rants-about-gay-marriage-again/356673/14 "2006-05-14T01:29:00Z")
There’s more to marriage than sex. Catholic priests may not have had experience with intimate relationships, but they might know something about reconciling problems with personal relationships, as they have friends, confidantes, etc. just like everyone else and in fact hear and see a lot of, well, intimate details of their followers that other people don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2006, 8:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-rants-about-gay-marriage-again/356673/15 "2006-05-14T08:58:09Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Am I the only one who’s getting fed up with this particular brainless attempt at a “gotcha”? Christians who hate gays are bigots. Muslims who hate gays are bigots. And posters who try to deflect any criticism of a Christian worshipper or Chistian institution by asking, “What if a Muslim did it?” are fucking morons. I’m not actually a Christian, I’m inclined to the other religion I’ve asked about, but that’s a long story 😛 > [@](#): > > Because it’s fucking bigoted. Of course it’s fucking bigoted, doesn’t change shit in the real world bucko, but it’s a Church that’s 2000 years old, hence 2000 years of history to deal with. Sounds like some are thinking of an overnight change, won’t happen for shit. So let’s be all happy in the knowledge that not all Christians are like this. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2006, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-rants-about-gay-marriage-again/356673/16 "2006-05-14T15:06:57Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > a Church that’s 2000 years old, hence 2000 years of history to deal with. Sounds like some are thinking of an overnight change, won’t happen for shit. So let’s be all happy in the knowledge that not all Christians are like this. A bigoted idea that has existed for 2,000 years and won’t change overnight is still a bigoted fucking idea. ---
**Author:** ![IGJoe1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e9bcb4/32.png) [@IGJoe1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IGJoe1)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2006, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-rants-about-gay-marriage-again/356673/17 "2006-05-14T15:09:47Z")
Wow, the two things I hate to see the most in a religious debate and both of them are going on here: 1. A religious person trying to use religious sources to convince a non-religious person to take a certain course of action: person A “Why should I do X?” …Person B “Cuz the Bible says so” … Person A " I don’t believe in the sanctity of the Bible" … Person B “Well, the Bible still says so.” 2. People saying the church should become ‘modern’. See item 1 in reverse, for a person who does ‘believe’ there can be no greater example of the tail wagging the god. If you believe in God you don’t have the luxury to say ‘well, I guess this is ok now since everyone is doing it’. If you believe in God you really don’t have the luxury of condemning others either. Those who try to shape the world via secular means to thier religion are just as lost in “faith” as those who try to shape thier religion to the world. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2006, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-rants-about-gay-marriage-again/356673/18 "2006-05-14T17:24:47Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Am I the only one who’s getting fed up with this particular brainless attempt at a “gotcha”? Christians who hate gays are bigots. Muslims who hate gays are bigots. But are Atheists who hate Christains bigots? (probabally only if they accept Muslems as well) Now one issue I see that you are ignoring **Der Trihs** is that you can disagree with one’s activities, and disagree with a expanded concept of marriage without hating the person doing it. And it seems like you are the one who is hating the person here due to someone’s views on activities, so who’s the bigot here? And further you are the one wanting to restrict this groups freedom of speach > [@Der Trihs](#): > > I wish Pope Palpatine and his Bronze Age minions would all shut up and go live on an island somewhere, and stop trying to enforce the archaic laws of an evil and fictional God. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2006, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-rants-about-gay-marriage-again/356673/19 "2006-05-14T17:45:35Z")
How is wishing someone would shut up restricting their freedom of speech? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![athelas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@athelas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athelas)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2006, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-rants-about-gay-marriage-again/356673/20 "2006-05-14T18:13:05Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Am I the only one who’s getting fed up with this particular brainless attempt at a “gotcha”? Christians who hate gays are bigots. Muslims who hate gays are bigots. And posters who try to deflect any criticism of a Christian worshipper or Chistian institution by asking, “What if a Muslim did it?” are fucking morons. Because the same people who constantly harp on the bigotedness of Christianity (by which they mean that they disagree with its tenets), much more rarely attack Islam. Check past Pit threads, and compile a list. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-rants-about-gay-marriage-again/356673.md?page=2)