# Pope Ratzi **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 19, 2005, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-ratzi/300086 "2005-04-19T17:22:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2005, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-ratzi/300086/221 "2005-04-20T02:08:56Z")
> [@SolGrundy](#): > > Because **Polycarp** speaks on authority of being a human being, no more or less. Not as the head of his church, commanding millions of people across the planet to act according to his decrees. What’s the cut-off point. If Polycarp were to found a political action committee, and it grew to a hundred members, would he then have to silence himself? How about a thousand members? A million? ---
**Author:** ![tsarina](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f4b2a3/32.png) [@tsarina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tsarina)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2005, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-ratzi/300086/222 "2005-04-20T02:11:27Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > Oh, no. We can’t let responsibility or caution or anything get in the way of pleasure. So says the guy who fathered a child out of wedlock. I guess it _can_ be pretty hard to keep your pants zipped, eh **Airman**? ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2005, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-ratzi/300086/223 "2005-04-20T02:25:38Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > The problem comes when the Catholic Church, or the Southern Baptist Convention, or anybody else, decides that its political power is such that it can force through laws to prohibit people from doing what it considers a sin, whether or not they’re Catholics, or Baptists, or whateveritarians. So far as I know, the pope doesn’t _have_ any political power other than the extent to which Catholics choose to follow him. Are we going to let people vote however they like so long as their religion doesn’t influence them? > [@](#): > > If he once decides that he will influence the political sphere to ban contraceptives, abortions, homosexual acts, or whatever else happens to float his Index of Faith and Morals, that’s the point at which he has crossed a line and deserves to be told firmly to butt out. Am I to take it you feel the same about JP2’s attempts to influence the political sphere in opposing the death penalty, war in Iraq and so on? Did you tell Archbishop Williams to “butt out” when he criticized Bush? Is it some sort of bizarre coincidence that theological liberals whose churches take seriously the Biblical call to care for the poor just happen to support political programs that care for the poor? I sure hope not. As I said in the GD thread; I’m not thrilled with the choice, either. But that’s pretty much because I wish the Roman Catholic Church were less Roman Catholic. I’m not surprised that they don’t feel the same. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2005, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-ratzi/300086/224 "2005-04-20T02:27:24Z")
> [@tsarina](#): > > So says the guy who fathered a child out of wedlock. I guess it _can_ be pretty hard to keep your pants zipped, eh **Airman**? Yep. I admit it. And guess what? I was a standup guy about it. In other words, I accepted (happily) the consequences of my actions. I didn’t blame anybody else for what I had done and I didn’t try to palm responsibility off on anyone else. I certainly didn’t blame a religious figure for my failure to think. Nope, I just accepted responsibility and went about being a good father to my son and husband to my wife. So what’s up? That’s what I thought: you have nothing. No surprise there. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2005, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-ratzi/300086/225 "2005-04-20T02:28:54Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > What’s the cut-off point. You’re right. There is none. Everybody has a right to believe, and they are hence entitled to their influence, for good or ill. For that matter, American politicians butt into the affairs of other nations all the time, so why not the Holy See? It’s too bad, because it means spirituality is hopelessly interwoven into public policy, and so long as that’s true, it is subject to the pressures and criticisms of any other policy-making force. I’ve heard it stated many times that Church and State get into bed to the detriment of both, and as far as I can tell, history has born this out. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2005, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-ratzi/300086/226 "2005-04-20T02:30:15Z")
> [@furt](#): > > All sin is prideful; and yes, the Catholic church teaches that homosexual activity is sinful. We know that comes as a shock. It was a surprise to me that **Bricker** thinks it’s sinful. I already knew the Church was backwards on that issue. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2005, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-ratzi/300086/227 "2005-04-20T02:34:51Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Why are YOU permitted to try to influence the political sphere to achieve results you believe are valuable, but the Pope is not? I was under the impression that you think people are not allowed to critize groups that they are a not a part of. Last time I checked the Pope wasn’t American so shouldn’t he stay out of American politics? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2005, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-ratzi/300086/228 "2005-04-20T02:36:00Z")
> [@furt](#): > > All sin is prideful; and yes, the Catholic church teaches that homosexual activity is sinful. We know that comes as a shock. It was a surprise to me that **Bricker** thinks it’s sinful. I already knew the Church was backwards on that issue. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2005, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-ratzi/300086/229 "2005-04-20T02:38:35Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > It was a surprise to me that **Bricker** thinks it’s sinful. I already knew the Church was backwards on that issue. I think a lot of things are sinful. Many of them are things I do. I think we are all sinners. I don’t regard sex outside of marriage, or homosexual sex, as gigantic sins, but in the same league as many other sins that are committed in spite of the basic goodness of the person committing them. I sin every day, **Diogenes** , and ther are times and in ways when they are worse sins than the above. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2005, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-ratzi/300086/230 "2005-04-20T02:40:13Z")
> [@treis](#): > > I was under the impression that you think people are not allowed to critize groups that they are a not a part of. Last time I checked the Pope wasn’t American so shouldn’t he stay out of American politics? Not at all. The American government has tried to influence the politics and policies of other countries, has it not? Why should it be immune from the governments of other countries trying to influence American policies? ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2005, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-ratzi/300086/231 "2005-04-20T02:43:17Z")
The Catholic Church has tried to influence the politics and policies of other people has it not? Why should it be immune from other people trying to influence Vatican policies? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2005, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-ratzi/300086/232 "2005-04-20T02:44:35Z")
> [@treis](#): > > The Catholic Church has tried to influence the politics and policies of other people has it not? Why should it be immune from other people trying to influence Vatican policies? It shouldn’t. Who said it should be immune? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2005, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-ratzi/300086/233 "2005-04-20T02:48:53Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > Yep. I admit it. And guess what? I was a standup guy about it. In other words, I accepted (happily) the consequences of my actions. I didn’t blame anybody else for what I had done and I didn’t try to palm responsibility off on anyone else. I certainly didn’t blame a religious figure for my failure to think. Nope, I just accepted responsibility and went about being a good father to my son and husband to my wife. > > So what’s up? That’s what I thought: you have nothing. No surprise there. How does that absolve you of your hypocrisy in in judging the sexual behavior of others. You took responsibility after you fucked up. That’s commendable (and I mean that) but taking responsibility for your own mistake did not magically provide you with the first stone. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2005, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-ratzi/300086/234 "2005-04-20T02:52:27Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > How does that absolve you of your hypocrisy in in judging the sexual behavior of others. You took responsibility after you fucked up. That’s commendable (and I mean that) but taking responsibility for your own mistake did not magically provide you with the first stone. A heroin addict gets clean and gets a job counseling others not to take heroin. Hypocrite? ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2005, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-ratzi/300086/235 "2005-04-20T02:52:41Z")
And as I was saying before I had nobody to blame but myself. Remember that phrase? Funny, because that’s what I’ve been saying the whole time, which has apparently been conveniently ignored. ---
**Author:** ![Nic2004](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/4491bb/32.png) [@Nic2004](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nic2004)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2005, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-ratzi/300086/236 "2005-04-20T02:54:03Z")
Hey… isn’t this Ratzi guy the one that played Cliff on Cheers? How much harm can he do? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2005, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-ratzi/300086/237 "2005-04-20T02:55:26Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > And as I was saying before I had nobody to blame but myself. Remember that phrase? Funny, because that’s what I’ve been saying the whole time, which has apparently been conveniently ignored. I’m asking where you got the authority to condemn anyone else. All the self-abasement in the world is insufficient to grant you that prerogative. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2005, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-ratzi/300086/238 "2005-04-20T02:57:18Z")
True, but neither did he lose the right to comment on current issues because of his past deeds, **Diogenes**. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2005, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-ratzi/300086/239 "2005-04-20T02:59:15Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > A heroin addict gets clean and gets a job counseling others not to take heroin. > > Hypocrite? **AD** wasn’t counselling anyone, just making a blanket condemnation. ---
**Author:** ![holmes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e95f7d/32.png) [@holmes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/holmes)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2005, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-ratzi/300086/240 "2005-04-20T02:59:37Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > A heroin addict gets clean and gets a job counseling others not to take heroin. > > Hypocrite? A heroin addict gets clean and gets a job counseling others not to take to take heroin. An addicted person walks in and asks for help easing the withdrawl. The counselor tells them that they made the decision to get high and now they need to deal with the results and closes the door, telling them that methods to ease withdrawl don’t really work and in fact increases the risk of deeper addiction. Liar? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-ratzi/300086.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-ratzi/300086.md?page=13)