# Pope says no to gay marriage **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 15, 2021, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-says-no-to-gay-marriage/937955 "2021-03-15T21:54:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2021, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-says-no-to-gay-marriage/937955/61 "2021-03-20T17:46:32Z")
> [@mordecaiB](#): > > Didn’t the pope say just a few weeks ago that it was okay for members to take the evil Johnson & Johnson covid vaccine that used aborted baby tech to manufacture? _If it’s what’s available_. > [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > It’s not well known but Catholic church is OK with big bang theory and even evolution which they teach in catholic schools. Heck one of the founders of the BBT was himself a priest. But for some reason or another this information seems to fail to get through to huge segments of the public. (_“They are so backwards on Thing A and Thing B, they must be super backwards on EVERYTHING!!!”_, I suppose is the thinking.) ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2021, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-says-no-to-gay-marriage/937955/62 "2021-03-20T22:38:50Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > _If it’s what’s available_ . Sorry, if you are adamantly against abortion unless it helps you personally, that’s not much of a stance. Especially if you view abortion as murder. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2021, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-says-no-to-gay-marriage/937955/63 "2021-03-21T01:34:19Z")
> [@Mama\_Zappa](#): > > I was surprised that conservative Judaism permits it (though that may vary by congregation) It shouldn’t. If a congregation doesn’t like it, it can drop it’s affiliation with the movement, but if it wants to maintain it, it complies with its policies. The movements don’t go out to areas where there isn’t a congregation, and start a mission that is supported financially by the national movement until it can support itself, with the goal of recruiting members in order to become self-supporting. Congregations start because there are a lot of Jews in an area who start coming together and decide they are a congregation; they draw up a charter or a constitution. They may build or buy a building. They may decide to affiliate with one movement, more than one, or none. My current congregation is affiliated with both the Conservative and the Reconstructionist movements. The last synagogue I belonged to was affiliated with no movement for more than 20 years, but at one point, after being without a rabbi for a few years, decided to affiliate with the Reform movement in order to host student rabbis, and have them there every Shabbat, and on the holidays to perform some rabbinical functions. However, there are “musts,” and “permitteds.” In other words, things that a congregation is required to do, or to recognize, and things that the congregation is allowed to do or recognize. _Recognizing_ same-sex marriages is required of all three liberal movements. This means that anything that is extended to a heterosexual married couple, in terms of joint memberships, or whatever, MUST also be extended to same-sex couples who are legally married. I _think_ the current policy in all the liberal movements is that the rabbi MUST perform a marriage ceremony for any couple where both people are Jewish, at least one is a member of the congregation, they have a valid license in the jurisdiction, and there is no legal reason they should not be married (for example, if one is divorced, a get has been issued). However, I have not checked to make sure that this is the policy for the Conservative movement. I would need to check, because there was a time when rabbis were allowed to refuse same-sex couples-- it was when it was not legal in all states. The movements did not all come along equally. The Reconstructionist movement allowed rabbis to say a blessing over same-sex couple IIRC, back in the 1980s, and Reform and Reconstructionist movements allowed congregations to choose to offer joint memberships to same-sex couples in the 1990s. I’m pretty sure that since same-sex marriage has been allowed in the whole country, it has been required of all rabbis in all three liberal movements. There is a fourth sort of denomination or something, of liberal Judaism called “Renewal.” It’s kind of new-agey, and very touchy-feely. Not my cup of tea at all. But they are very much OK with same-sex marriage. They are pretty new, though, and don’t currently ordain rabbis. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2021, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-says-no-to-gay-marriage/937955/64 "2021-03-21T19:59:56Z")
There are no aborted fetus cells used in any vaccine. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2021, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-says-no-to-gay-marriage/937955/65 "2021-03-21T20:00:27Z")
Except that the vaccine has nothing whatsoever to do with abortion. ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2021, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-says-no-to-gay-marriage/937955/66 "2021-03-21T20:00:43Z")
You don’t know what you’re talking about. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2021, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-says-no-to-gay-marriage/937955/67 "2021-03-21T20:02:12Z")
> **[Johnson & Johnson's COVID Vaccine Has Sparked Controversy for Using Fetal...](https://www.health.com/condition/vaccines/johnson-and-johnson-fetal-cells-vaccine)** > > Johnson & Johnson used fetal cell lines to produce the brand's new COVID vaccine. Find out more here. If you don’t have a solid grasp of human biology, this is where it gets pretty confusing. To be clear, there are _no_ vaccines that involve stem cells from aborted fetuses. ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2021, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-says-no-to-gay-marriage/937955/68 "2021-03-21T20:05:48Z")
I could explain it to you, but I can’t understand it for you. All you need to do is look at a news source every once in a while. I don’t know why you insist people must explain stuff to you all the time. This is a well known problem for Catholics. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2021, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-says-no-to-gay-marriage/937955/69 "2021-03-21T20:07:44Z")
I just cited a news source. ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2021, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-says-no-to-gay-marriage/937955/70 "2021-03-21T20:12:12Z")
Again, nobody id required to explain things to you. The problem is heavily publicized, bishops across the US have spoken out about it. Your lack of reading does not mean everyone has to do research for you. Seriously, you are an adult with internet access, this is childs play. ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2021, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-says-no-to-gay-marriage/937955/71 "2021-03-21T20:29:56Z")
> [@mordecaiB](#): > > Again, nobody id required to explain things to you. The problem is heavily publicized, bishops across the US have spoken out about it. Your lack of reading does not mean everyone has to do research for you. Seriously, you are an adult with internet access, this is childs play. Well, other than you. **DrDeth** provided a cite that refutes your claim, while you say “Google it yourself”, which is lazy and unconvincing and not how it usually works here at the Dope. ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2021, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-says-no-to-gay-marriage/937955/72 "2021-03-21T20:36:30Z")
Read the first line of the article he posted. The entire explanation for the problem is there but apparently he didn’t bother to read his own cite. Nor did you. If you really tell me you have not heard anything about this, I promise I will get you a link. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2021, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-says-no-to-gay-marriage/937955/73 "2021-03-21T20:39:31Z")
To be honest, I didn’t know a lick about this either, as our Catholic parish is on the progressive side of the spectrum, and not a single priest has ever raised it in their homilies or otherwise, but here’s the issue. Apparently, as a Catholic, the official “moral” stance is you can take the J&J vaccine if you don’t have any other choice, pretty much: > **[U.S. Bishop Chairmen for Doctrine and for Pro-Life Address the Use of the...](https://www.usccb.org/news/2021/us-bishop-chairmen-doctrine-and-pro-life-address-use-johnson-johnson-covid-19-vaccine)** > > Statement on the Johnson and Johnson COVID-19 vaccine recently approved for use in the United States... ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2021, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-says-no-to-gay-marriage/937955/74 "2021-03-21T20:42:29Z")
The other problem with this is local bishops are not all following the nothing wrong with J&J vaccine thing, and are saying people should not use it. But this has turned into a hijack, so unless **EinsteinsHund** still needs a cite, I won’t hijack any further. ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2021, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-says-no-to-gay-marriage/937955/75 "2021-03-21T20:46:02Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > To be honest, I didn’t know a lick about this either, as our Catholic parish is on the progressive side of the spectrum, and not a single priest has ever raised it in their homilies or otherwise, but here’s the issue. Apparently, as a Catholic, the official “moral” stance is you can take the J&J vaccine if you don’t have any other choice, pretty much: I hadn’t heard about that controversy either, and I’m still not convinced that it’s a general controversy among Catholics. The site **DrDeth** linked to mentions one Catholic parish in New Orleans speaking up against the J&J vaccine, but that’s hardly the whole Catholic church nor an official statement from the Vatican. And then the article explains that the vaccine itself does NOT contain stem cells produced from fetuses. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2021, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-says-no-to-gay-marriage/937955/76 "2021-03-22T01:30:38Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > This is the least surprising news I’ve heard all day. I mean, he’s wrong, but then again, he’s Catholic. > (Hey, I was born and raised Catholic; I’m allowed to say that.) Me too. Fire insurance. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2021, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-says-no-to-gay-marriage/937955/77 "2021-03-22T13:04:30Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > I’m sorry, I must have missed where the Catholic Church was being required to perform same sex marriage. It’s the same part of the law that says that if gay marriage is allowed then all of the straight marriages currently existing are dissolved and the two partners will be _forced_ into a gay marriage. At least, that’s what the objectors seem to be afraid of. ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2021, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-says-no-to-gay-marriage/937955/78 "2021-03-22T15:18:53Z")
From _America_, the official publication of the Society of Jesus in the United States: > **[Vatican sources suspect Pope Francis was distancing himself from CDF...](https://www.americamagazine.org/faith/2021/03/21/pope-francis-same-sex-unions-statement-240291)** > > According to three sources, it was significant that Francis called on Christians and the church to give witness to Jesus “not with theoretical condemnations but with gestures of love.” An interesting take from the order of which Pope Francis was a member. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pope-says-no-to-gay-marriage/937955.md?page=3)