# Popular culture stagnation since mid-1990s? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 27, 2021, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/popular-culture-stagnation-since-mid-1990s/949625 "2021-08-27T16:19:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2021, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/popular-culture-stagnation-since-mid-1990s/949625/81 "2021-09-02T02:59:11Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > Then it’s not a very good argument. > > There are posters in the thread who argue it doesn’t. And they’re right, unless one mainly listens to music on Top 40 radio stations. That’s kind of the point being made. It says more about the people making the argument than about music itself. Maybe it’s a matter of degree. I just have a hard time imagining that if the 24 year old me from 2001 stepped into a time machine and came out today, that he would be wowed and amazed by how different the music sounds. I think it’s much more likely that my 24 year old father stepping into a time machine in 1971 would be a lot more wowed and amazed by the differences in the music of 1991. Let’s consider the famous scene from Back to the Future where Marty plays Johnny B. Goode to an audience of teenagers in 1955. The song is treated as if it was completely foreign to the sensibilities of a bunch of high school seniors, even though in real life it would come out a mere three years later. Imagine if he had played some Bon Jovi or Def Leppard 😲. It’s hard for me to imagine any music like that if Marty had been traveling from 2021 to 1999. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2021, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/popular-culture-stagnation-since-mid-1990s/949625/82 "2021-09-02T04:20:20Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > I have to say I love Lana Del Rey. I think she’s a fantastic songwriter. And her songs definitely don’t sound like anything from 20 years ago. I don’t think I would listen to an entire album seriously, but I think she has talent and has a nice languid, sorta hypnotic quality. Good background music for driving in the desert at night. But I mostly think of her for making me go “wait, what?” when I first heard Cola 😄 . ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2021, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/popular-culture-stagnation-since-mid-1990s/949625/83 "2021-09-02T13:24:56Z")
> [@bump](#): > > there are no real equivalents of parachute pants or 1970s bell bottoms, or 1960s skinny ties and crew cuts that I can lay my fingers on for the late 1990s, 2000s or 2010s. Yoga pants. > [@bump](#): > > I’m constantly surprised at how NOT different stuff like sitcoms are That’s because traditional sitcoms are themselves a slowly dying form. Comedy’s moved on, dramedies are more where it’s at. > [@bump](#): > > Is this just a product of me getting older and having more perspective on it? Were my parents in 1985 looking at 1960 as forty-somethings much the same way I’m looking at 1995? Or is something going on with this perception? I’d say something is going on. Pop culture has not stagnated. One big example - a lot of kids’ TV shows of the last decade would have been _unthinkable_ in the 90s. Anything as challenging of old norms as _Steven Universe_ or _She-Ra_, would never have been made. As for music - if you don’t see that there’s definitely a Tik-Tok sound, you’re out of touch. The 60-second soundbite nature comes through in a lot of newer music and videos. > [@suranyi](#): > > And her songs definitely don’t sound like anything from 20 years ago. Mazzy Star had been around for more than a decade, 20 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2021, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/popular-culture-stagnation-since-mid-1990s/949625/84 "2021-09-02T13:45:57Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Yoga pants. Muted tone yoga pants maybe. Because colorful yoga pants were a big thing in the 80s and 90s. It’s pretty telling that the first thing that comes to mind for fashion is a thing that was also popular in the last century, and even this century…which decade are we associating it with? The zeroes, the tens, the twenties? To clarify: I am sure there are many examples of new fashions in the 21st century. But very few were both different enough and pervasive enough to be strongly associated with a period of time. That’s all I’m saying, it’s not a criticism. > [@MrDibble](#): > > As for music - if you don’t see that there’s definitely a Tik-Tok sound, you’re out of touch. The 60-second soundbite nature comes through in a lot of newer music and videos. I think you’re right, but I would consider that a new form-factor, not a different style of music per se. Yes, many songs have a hook and chorus form that sound set up for kids to tik tok to. But that doesn’t seem to impact the rhythm, melody, timbre…it’s more like the change to making music fit on a 7" LP. Influential, yes, but not normally considered a new musical style. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2021, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/popular-culture-stagnation-since-mid-1990s/949625/85 "2021-09-02T14:33:45Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > Muted tone yoga pants maybe. Because colorful yoga pants were a big thing in the 80s and 90s. Can someone explain to this male of the species the difference between yoga pants, leggings and tights? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2021, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/popular-culture-stagnation-since-mid-1990s/949625/86 "2021-09-02T14:54:30Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > Muted tone yoga pants maybe. Because colorful yoga pants were a big thing in the 80s and 90s. I think you’re confusing yoga pants with something else, like maybe tights, because yoga pants didn’t exist until 1998. > [@Mijin](#): > > very few were both different enough and pervasive enough to be strongly associated with a period of time. The modern athleisure trend _is_ pervasive enough, IMO. And I associate it very strongly with this century. > [@Mijin](#): > > I would consider that a new form-factor, not a different style of music per se. I didn’t say it was a new _genre_, it’s still pop, just that it’s a distinct sound, one that wasn’t around in the 90s. And I’m not talking about the 60-second restriction itself, but how longer songs use the need to grab attention in those 60 seconds to shape their structure (and imagery). ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2021, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/popular-culture-stagnation-since-mid-1990s/949625/87 "2021-09-02T15:03:10Z")
Different materials, different cuts. Yoga pants are made of way more durable fabric, often have layering, and were primarily designed for exercise. Leggings were more designed for warmth, and are _not_ good to exercise in. Fabric is thinner and tighter. All of that even more so, for tights. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2021, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/popular-culture-stagnation-since-mid-1990s/949625/88 "2021-09-02T15:04:39Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Leggings were more designed for warmth, and are _not_ good to exercise in. Fabric is thinner and tighter. All of that even more so, for tights. I thought dancers wore tights. They’re not good for exercising in? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2021, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/popular-culture-stagnation-since-mid-1990s/949625/89 "2021-09-02T15:06:51Z")
Dance tights and fashion tights are not the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2021, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/popular-culture-stagnation-since-mid-1990s/949625/90 "2021-09-02T15:10:21Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I think you’re confusing yoga pants with something else, like maybe tights, because yoga pants didn’t exist until 1998. I just learned this today when this thread induced me to look up the history of yoga pants. Prior to lululemon (1998), we had tights and leggings and such things, but they weren’t exactly the yoga pants we see today, and they weren’t worn routinely outside of an exercise venue. I’d declare them a pretty long lasting trend at this point, but not widespread before the early 2000s. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2021, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/popular-culture-stagnation-since-mid-1990s/949625/91 "2021-09-02T15:32:52Z")
I am well aware of Lululemon, however personally whenever I hear “yoga pants” mentioned without context I always picture the classical loose-fitting style: [![](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c9/Female_Ascetics_%28Yoginis%29_LACMA_M.2011.156.4_%281_of_2%29.jpg) ](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c9/Female_Ascetics_%28Yoginis%29_LACMA_M.2011.156.4_%281_of_2%29.jpg) Of course, in practice people wear many sorts of outfits, including more of a capoeira style. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2021, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/popular-culture-stagnation-since-mid-1990s/949625/92 "2021-09-02T15:44:04Z")
It’s not even that it sounds the same, it’s that there haven’t been any serious stylistic changes that could define a period. It’s not that 1997 music sounds the exact same as 2021, it’s that there’s no point at which you could point at and say “Ah, 90s music!” (or 2000s, or 2010s) once grunge faded in the mid 90s. It’s been a VERY gradual process since then, with a lot of older music and acts retaining relevance far beyond where they would have in years past. That’s what I’m getting at; it’s not that nothing has changed, it’s that it’s changing very slowly relative to the roughly decade-ish cycles we saw in the past. Same thing with fashions, movies, etc… It’s not that they’re the same, it’s that the pace of change hasn’t allowed for them to be grouped into similar fads or whatever. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2021, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/popular-culture-stagnation-since-mid-1990s/949625/93 "2021-09-02T16:46:15Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Mazzy Star had been around for more than a decade, 20 years ago. Hah! I immediately thought of them in the same breath as well. And Mazzy Starr is ALSO good background music for driving in the desert at night. Which in their case I’ve actually done and why I thought about that in the first place. Lana Del Rey\>(cola, what?)\>Mazzy Star\>driving in the desert, both suitable. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2021, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/popular-culture-stagnation-since-mid-1990s/949625/94 "2021-09-02T17:57:56Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Can someone explain to this male of the species Firstly, there’s no need to be rude. Secondly why don’t you tell me the difference? Bearing in mind that if the answer is “materials” then this only serves to reinforce the view that it’s a trivial change. Finally, how about the question I asked: what time period are we associating yoga pants to? ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2021, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/popular-culture-stagnation-since-mid-1990s/949625/95 "2021-09-02T18:11:27Z")
Fashions always come and go, but you will have few sharp dividing lines or points on something that experiences continuity as well as, or more than, fits and starts. Whether 1990s music vs 2020s music or 1720s music vs 1750s music. And the important older music _always_ remains relevant and influences people, even centuries later. Same for literature, etc. In other words, there seems nothing surprising about what you have noticed concerning slow change and fast change, which can simultaneously coexist like different periods of tides. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2021, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/popular-culture-stagnation-since-mid-1990s/949625/96 "2021-09-02T19:02:41Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I think you’re confusing yoga pants with something else, like maybe tights, because yoga pants didn’t exist until 1998. There was something similar to yoga pants in the '80s, although I’m not 100% certain of what they were called ( tracksuits, maybe, or warmups I’m not sure). Unlike sweatpants, they weren’t made of cotton jersey and didn’t have elastic around the ankles. They were made of a stretchy fabric and the pants were cut like regular pants in terms of the length , not shorter like sweatpants. Unlike the yoga pants of today, they didn’t come in muted solid colors - you could get them in gray or black or navy blue but there would always be a contrasting stripe down the leg or a stripe around the knee. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2021, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/popular-culture-stagnation-since-mid-1990s/949625/97 "2021-09-02T19:12:11Z")
Are we talking about spandex? [![](https://i.etsystatic.com/6485814/r/il/670fac/1098727874/il_794xN.1098727874_97zu.jpg) ](https://i.etsystatic.com/6485814/r/il/670fac/1098727874/il_794xN.1098727874_97zu.jpg) > **Spandex** , **Lycra** , or **elastane** is a synthetic fiber known for its exceptional elasticity. It is a polyether-polyurea copolymer that was invented in 1958 by chemist Joseph Shivers at DuPont’s Benger Laboratory in Waynesboro, Virginia, US. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2021, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/popular-culture-stagnation-since-mid-1990s/949625/98 "2021-09-02T19:22:17Z")
> [@bump](#): > > It’s been a VERY gradual process since then, with a lot of older music and acts retaining relevance far beyond where they would have in years past. Is this actually true? Here is Billboard’s Top 100 chart for 2020: [Billboard Year-End Hot 100 singles of 2020 - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billboard_Year-End_Hot_100_singles_of_2020) There are very few ‘old’ acts. On a first glance… Maroon 5 and Mariah Carey (for All I Want for Christmas, which I assume has been on the chart for many years now because it’s played so damned much around December). Black Eyed Peas? (though this current formulation of the group has only existed since 2019). Lady Gaga is on there for a collab with Arianna Grande around the #50 mark. The rest are all pretty new acts. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2021, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/popular-culture-stagnation-since-mid-1990s/949625/99 "2021-09-02T19:39:40Z")
Lots on there have been around for 10 years or so. How many acts from 1975 were still relevant in 1985? Or between 1965 and 1975? Or 1985 and 1995? I count the following acts on that as having been relevant for 10 years or so: - Drake - DJ Khaled - Justin Bieber - Harry Styles (as part of One Direction) - Maroon 5 - Maren Morris - Selena Gomez - Chris Brown - Jason Derulo - Lady Gaga - Blake Shelton - Gwen Stefani - Jason Aldean - Eminem - Mariah Carey - Luke Bryan - Jonas Brothers - Miranda Lambert There are a lot more that are in the 5-8 year relevancy range. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2021, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/popular-culture-stagnation-since-mid-1990s/949625/100 "2021-09-02T19:48:07Z")
Changes in fashion are a lot slower than a review of magazine ads, TV shows and movies might lead you to believe. Documentary street scenes from the early 1970s are mostly populated by people, clothes, haircuts and quite a large percentage of even cars we would associate with an episode of Ozzie and Harriet. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/popular-culture-stagnation-since-mid-1990s/949625.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/popular-culture-stagnation-since-mid-1990s/949625.md?page=6)