[QUOTE=MrFloppy]
If you are a fan of Pink Floyd, hum or listen to ‘Money’ from DSOTM. It is in 7/4 time. You can count to 7 and it ‘fits’.
[/QUOTE]
Just be sure you’re counting beats and not notes. If you count the notes of the bass riff from “Money” you’ll come up with eight, not seven. But if you tap out evenly spaced beats while listening to it, you’ll find that the cycle does last seven beats before repeating, The second and third notes are part of the same beat; they’re just shorter than the other notes.
[QUOTE=Quercus]
I must say, if ‘waltz’ as a description of music is to mean anything, then quite a few - perhaps most- of these aren’t waltzes. I mean calling a piece of music a waltz should imply that one could indeed waltz to it. I find it difficult to imagine anyone performing anything that could be called a waltz step to “You Light Up My Life” or “Manic Depression”.
[/QUOTE]
What he said.
I have really enjoyed this thread. My wife and I have recently gone back to a dance studio that teaches ballroom very well, but hasn’t seemed to update their music ever. I am getting sick of the Lawrence Welk music and thought I would bring them a new cd of waltzes to try as an example.
I have a large collection of mp3s and have been able to find more than half the songs listed in this thread. As Quercus said, many of these songs have the right beat, but have a ridiculous tempo. I was counting to myself 123, 123, 123 and not 1..2..3.. 1..2..3.. - afterall a waltz is graceful.
The cool thing about the last club we were at is they played a lot of new music, that had the right beat. I have heard about all the Frank Sinatra I need to.
[QUOTE=MrFloppy]
No. I would say that Whiter Shade of Pale is 4/4. Play it and try counting one..two..three..one..two..three to it.
It won’t ‘fit’.
Basically the ‘time signature’ tells you how many beats to the bar and the value of those beats.
So 3/4 indicates 3 beats to the bar (a waltz - 1-2-3, 1-2-3) and the 4 indicates quarter notes.
6/8 indicates 6 beats to the bar and eighth notes. To the layman, 6/8 is 3/4.
If you are a fan of Pink Floyd, hum or listen to ‘Money’ from DSOTM. It is in 7/4 time. You can count to 7 and it ‘fits’. ‘Take 5’ by Brubeck is named because it is in 5/4.
‘Mars’ from Holst’s Planets (very famous) is also in 5/4.
[/QUOTE]
With absolutely no musical training, I am completely lost as to how to count beats to a bar. You might as well be asking me to count trees in a forest. I know, I asked. I thought maybe I could learn something, but without some basic knowledge I’m lost.
[QUOTE=Leaffan]
With absolutely no musical training, I am completely lost as to how to count beats to a bar.
[/QUOTE]
Can you hear that some notes are stressed more strongly than others? (Some people can’t, and if you can’t, well, this is never going to make sense to you.)
If you can hear that some beats are heavier, count a “one” on each heavy beat, then keep counting each beat till the next heavy beat. For lots and lots of music, the count will be, probably, ONE two three ONE two three ONE two three (a waltz rhythm), or ONE two three four ONE two three four ONE two three four.
Simple music sticks to these pretty straightforwardly; more complicated music might skip the occasional beat (so you hear ONE two three [silence] ONE two three [silence]), or divvy them up slightly differently (ONE two-and three four, ONE two-and three four), or slide the beat around (jazz, where it can get fairly complicated).
But generally, if you count along, and just keep counting evenly, you’ll find the rhythm that underlies even the most complicated music.
If, of course, you can hear that some beats are stressed and some aren’t.
I’m not a musical prodigy, but that is one of my top 10 favorite songs of all time and I am fairly certain that is not in 3/4 time. Also, the full title is “Tom Traubert’s Blues (Four Sheets to the Wind in Copenhagen)”
Also, **Tool of the Consipracy **mentioned “Take this Waltz” by Leonard Cohen, which is a fantastic tune that would be great for waltzing. (I think - I’m not a waltzer).
[QUOTE=twickster]
Can you hear that some notes are stressed more strongly than others? (Some people can’t, and if you can’t, well, this is never going to make sense to you.)
If you can hear that some beats are heavier, count a “one” on each heavy beat, then keep counting each beat till the next heavy beat. For lots and lots of music, the count will be, probably, ONE two three ONE two three ONE two three (a waltz rhythm), or ONE two three four ONE two three four ONE two three four.
Simple music sticks to these pretty straightforwardly; more complicated music might skip the occasional beat (so you hear ONE two three [silence] ONE two three [silence]), or divvy them up slightly differently (ONE two-and three four, ONE two-and three four), or slide the beat around (jazz, where it can get fairly complicated).
But generally, if you count along, and just keep counting evenly, you’ll find the rhythm that underlies even the most complicated music.
If, of course, you can hear that some beats are stressed and some aren’t.
[/QUOTE]
Yes, I suppose i can hear that some beats are heavier; I kinda get it. Perhaps I don’t know when to start or stop counting though.
MrFloppy mentioned “Money” and that "You can count to 7 and it ‘fits’. "
I hear a repeating “Dum da duh-duh-duh, Dum da duh-duh” in the bass line; that doesn’t have 7 beats, more like 9? If I try clapping along to the lyrics I feel more like 4 or 5 claps per line of lyrics would be appropriate.
See, this is where I’m totally ignorant of what a beat in a line is. Hey I’m a huge fan of music, with a lot of likes and dislikes. I also have an innate ability to be able to tap out the melody to songs (one note at a time) on a piano, or most other musical instruments (guitar, recorder, etc.) but have no clue about this beat stuff. And it looks like I never will without any formal education, which I’m not about to embark on. But thanks for trying to fight my ignorance!
[QUOTE=Leaffan]
Yes, I suppose i can hear that some beats are heavier; I kinda get it. Perhaps I don’t know when to start or stop counting though.
MrFloppy mentioned “Money” and that "You can count to 7 and it ‘fits’. "
I hear a repeating “Dum da duh-duh-duh, Dum da duh-duh” in the bass line; that doesn’t have 7 beats, more like 9? If I try clapping along to the lyrics I feel more like 4 or 5 claps per line of lyrics would be appropriate.
[/QUOTE]
A beat isn’t necessarily a note, or vice versa. If the song is in 7/4, that means there are seven beats to the measure and that the basic counting unit will be the quarter note. I believe that in this case you have 8 notes in the bar, with the second, third, and forth notes that you hear being a triplet over beats 2 and 3. A triplet is basically a way of squeezing three notes in where you would normally put in only two. Everything else in the bass line is a quarter note.
Biffy maybe you can confirm? You know we didn’t use to be able to go out at night, at UCSD, without hearing Dark Side Of The Moon from some dorm window.
[QUOTE=Leaffan] MrFloppy mentioned “Money” and that "You can count to 7 and it ‘fits’. "
[/quote]
That’s a really hard song to count. Come back to it after you’ve tried something easier.
One thing - for most rock songs, the “beats” are exactly the same length and they never stop through the song. So ignore the lyrics (because some words stretch long or short or no one is singing anything at all at that moment) and the notes (same reason), and listen for something in the music that happens like a ticking clock (oftentimes the drums or bass) all the way through the song.
So, pick a song (not Money - run from Money), and start tapping along with that. Remember, all taps should be the same length, no two should be closer together or faster or slower. Absolutely even. Tune out everything else but the pulse of the music. You might even bore yourself.
Once you’re tapping along successfully, then notice that at a regular interval, something happens, the drums are a little louder, another instrument plays on the beat, there’s some kind of emphasis. That’s “1.” then count taps until that emphasis happens again. Keep doing it over and over. In most rock songs, you should always reach the same number before you get to “1” again.
[QUOTE=Quercus]
I find it difficult to imagine anyone performing anything that could be called a waltz step to “You Light Up My Life” or “Manic Depression”.
[/QUOTE]
I managed “Manic Depression”, though it took some work. It’s good for a party trick and that’s about it.
[QUOTE=missred]
A lot of traditional southern gospel is in 3/4 time…which is kind of odd, considering many of the churches back in the day forbade dancing.
[/QUOTE]
Yes, I suppose waltzing to Amazing Grace would seem kind of odd.
Thought of another Dwight Yoakam waltz: South of Cincinnati
And from the world of bluegrass, there’s Kentucky Waltz by Bill Monroe.
Raindrops on Roses and Whiskers on Kittens [pause], Bright copper Kettles and
**Warm ** woolen Mittens [pause] Brown paper Packages
**Tied ** up in Strings-sss [pause]
**These ** are a
**Few ** of my Favorite Things-sss [pause]
And here’s Bill Monroe performing a couple of waltzes: Blue Moon of Kentucky, and Kentucky Waltz. Well, Blue Moon starts as a waltz, but then kicks it up a notch. (I believe his earliest recording of the tune was waltz all the way through.) Not Monroe’s best performance. Track down the original recordings.
Once you’re tapping along successfully, then notice that at a regular interval, something happens, the drums are a little louder, another instrument plays on the beat, there’s some kind of emphasis. That’s “1.” then count taps until that emphasis happens again. Keep doing it over and over. In most rock songs, you should always reach the same number before you get to “1” again.
[/QUOTE]
This sounds really lame, but it works: As I listen to the song, or imagine hearing it in my mind, I count out the beats using the fingers of one hand–thumb, index, middle finger, ring finger, and pinkie, then back to the thumb if necessary. With a bit of practice you get to a point where your fingers will just work automatically so you don’t have to think “one..two..three…four”. With “Money” I find that at the end of that bass riff I am on my index finger for the second time around, so that’s 5+2=7.
A very cool blues/classic R&B trick is to anticipate the chord change on the the last half beat of the previous bar…check out “Green Onions” (and a lot of Booker T. and the MGs’ stuff).
[QUOTE=Quercus]
I must say, if ‘waltz’ as a description of music is to mean anything, then quite a few - perhaps most- of these aren’t waltzes. I mean calling a piece of music a waltz should imply that one could indeed waltz to it. I find it difficult to imagine anyone performing anything that could be called a waltz step to “You Light Up My Life” or “Manic Depression”.
Good Lord people, a waltz is more than just any old song in 3/4 or, God forbid, 6/8. At a minimum it should be in a slow-medium (waltzable) tempo, with minimal tempo variation and very few pauses or other suspensions of the beat (in a word, danceable); have a fairly steady three beat, with only a minor to medium accent on the first beat; and have a reasonably smooth and flowing sound. Of course, there are going to be judgement calls at the boundaries, but since the OP refers to actual, you know, dancing, I say we should be concentrating on real waltzes, not just any music with a vague three-beat. (And aren’t “Taste of Honey” and “I Me Me Mine” in 4/4 anyway?)
[\grumpy elderly Englishman]
[/QUOTE]
Hey, I checked mine by dancing to it before I posted it (I’ve had over four years of dance lessons - I even danced backwards, 'cause I’m a girl )!
(My cheat for finding beats is to ask my husband, the former percussionist. He always knows what the beat is.)
You know those people who never “get” trigonometry?
Well, I’m not one of them, but my brain isn’t wired for the aforementioned musical beats.
Which brings me to a slightly different, although related, musical hijack:
How in the hell do musicians play two completely different musical melodies with each hand? There was an earlier thread with a youtube link to a young musician playing the Simpsons theme on two guitars, but that’s not too exceptional. Prime example, Ray Manzarek played bass with his left hand, while he screamed away lead organ on most Doors music. How the hell can the brain do a recurring “bum-da-da-bum” on one hand and then total improvisation on the other. My brain is not wired accordingly.
[QUOTE=Biffy the Elephant Shrew]
Both songs have 3/4 verses and but go to 4/4 for the bridge. In the Let It Be movie you actually see John & Yoko waltzing to “I Me Mine.”
[/QUOTE]
I read somewhere (I think it was in From Abbey Road to Zapple Records by Judson Knight) that George Harrison told George Martin “I want it to sound like this” after watching something about the music of Vienna on tv.
I have really enjoyed this thread. My wife and I have recently gone back to a dance studio that teaches ballroom very well, but hasn’t seemed to update their music ever. I am getting sick of the Lawrence Welk music and thought I would bring them a new cd of waltzes to try as an example.
I have a large collection of mp3s and have been able to find more than half the songs listed in this thread. As Quercus said, many of these songs have the right beat, but have a ridiculous tempo. I was counting to myself 123, 123, 123 and not 1..2..3.. 1..2..3.. - afterall a waltz is graceful.
The cool thing about the last club we were at is they played a lot of new music, that had the right beat. I have heard about all the Frank Sinatra I need to.
[/QUOTE]
Do you ever do the Viennese Waltz? Simply put, it is the waltz on meth. You just do relatively simple steps (lots of alternating half turns) but travel around the room at about the pace of a light jog.
It is incredibly fluid and graceful when done well… but still very fast.
