# Popular songs with unusual time signatures **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 6, 2006, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/popular-songs-with-unusual-time-signatures/359614 "2006-06-06T14:51:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![wheelie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b4bc9f/32.png) [@wheelie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wheelie)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2006, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/popular-songs-with-unusual-time-signatures/359614/41 "2006-06-07T16:38:24Z")
[QUOTE=RealityChuck] Frank Zappa liked changing time signatures all the time. His “Dancin’ Fool” – which reached #45, his second most successful single – keeps changing so that, though ostensibly a dance song, it is impossible to dance to. [/QUOTE] In **Toads of the Short Forest** , FZ says “At this very moment on stage, we have drummer A playing in 7/8, drummer B playing in 3/4, the bass playing in 3/4, the organ playing in 5/8, the tambourine playing in 3/4, and the alto sax blowing his nose.” Kinda makes dancing to **Dancing Fool** look easy. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![DfrntBreign](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f6c823/32.png) [@DfrntBreign](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DfrntBreign)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2006, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/popular-songs-with-unusual-time-signatures/359614/42 "2006-06-07T23:21:22Z")
I hope you haven’t all left, yet. Santana did a song on the Welcome album called “Flame-Sky”. I’ve been trying to wrap my head around the time signature of that song for almost twenty years and just can not figure it out. I think it must be some kind of “mental blind spot” on my part. I can even play ((drums, no less) along with) it, just can’t count it (how weird is that?). Is anyone here familiar with the song? And can you Please, Please, Please help me break it down? ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2006, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/popular-songs-with-unusual-time-signatures/359614/43 "2006-06-07T23:24:02Z")
Not exactly “popular”, but Nine Inch Nails’ March of the Pigs has a 29/8 time signature. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2006, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/popular-songs-with-unusual-time-signatures/359614/44 "2006-06-07T23:31:37Z")
Aha, nobody’s yet mentioned _America_ off of Bernstein’s _West Side Story_. Not that complex compared to others mentioned, but it appears to be one bar of 6/8 followed by one of 3/4. There’s probably a more musically correct way of expressing that, but it’s been a while since I studied the subject. 1-2-3 1-2-3 1-2 1-2 1-2 [I like to] [be in A] [me|-ri|-ca|] ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2006, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/popular-songs-with-unusual-time-signatures/359614/45 "2006-06-08T00:51:28Z")
[QUOTE=DfrntBreign] And can you Please, Please, Please help me break it down? [/QUOTE] I count it as four bars of 3/8 followed by a bar of 3/16. ---
**Author:** ![DfrntBreign](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f6c823/32.png) [@DfrntBreign](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DfrntBreign)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2006, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/popular-songs-with-unusual-time-signatures/359614/46 "2006-06-08T03:34:22Z")
[QUOTE=Biffy the Elephant Shrew] I count it as four bars of 3/8 followed by a bar of 3/16. [/QUOTE] I do, too. Now. Thanks Biffy! (123)(223)(323)(423)(1e&), Yup, that’s it. If I thought of myself as a serious musician I’d be embarrassed. Good thing I don’t. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![TLDRIDKJKLOLFTW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/51bf81/32.png) [@TLDRIDKJKLOLFTW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TLDRIDKJKLOLFTW)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2006, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/popular-songs-with-unusual-time-signatures/359614/47 "2006-06-08T04:51:21Z")
[QUOTE=riker1384] **“Hey Ya”** by Outkast is 6+8. [/QUOTE] Cite? It’s pretty clearly 4/4. ---
**Author:** ![ZebraShaSha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/eada6e/32.png) [@ZebraShaSha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZebraShaSha)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2006, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/popular-songs-with-unusual-time-signatures/359614/48 "2006-06-08T04:58:10Z")
The OP said popular, but when one talks about time signatures in contemporary music, there has to be atleast one mention of math rock. Math rock’s entire purpose is to change the time signature, and it gets its name from being so “numerical” in the way the time is changed. Probably the most well known group labeled by some to be math rock would be either Drive like Jehu, Slint, or Breadwinner. They are the most common names atleast, with Drive Like Jehu also considered big in emo circles. The biggest name in math rock is without question Steve Albini, guitarist and originator of the genre. He played solo or in bands like Shellac, but is most well known as a record producer. He has recorded bands like Mogwai, Fugazi, Bush, Nirvana, etc etc. Of course, all of this is not to be confused with mathcore (or tech metal or metal core [though metal core isn’t mathcore]). Tech metal is a crazy, highly technical, and complex beyond anything genre of metalcore. Oh, and as for the OP, Captain Beefheart had a couple of odd songs here and there, if they can be considered “pop.” ---
**Author:** ![thirdname](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d07c76/32.png) [@thirdname](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thirdname)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2006, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/popular-songs-with-unusual-time-signatures/359614/49 "2006-06-08T05:11:21Z")
re: **Hey Ya** : [QUOTE=VCO3] Cite? It’s pretty clearly 4/4. [/QUOTE] Actually I think it’s 8+6 rather than 6+8. I’m not big on the song but think of around when he says “shake, shake it like a Polaroid Picture.” DUMM, da-da, Dumm, da-da, Dumm, da-da, da-da 4+4+4+2 (“Dumm” is 2 beats and “da-da” is 2.) and it repeats. It might be 8+6+8 or something like that, but there’s definitely an 8+6 rythym that’s common throughout the song. ---
**Author:** ![ZebraShaSha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/eada6e/32.png) [@ZebraShaSha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZebraShaSha)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2006, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/popular-songs-with-unusual-time-signatures/359614/50 "2006-06-08T05:12:03Z")
Oh, I forgot to mention: The Dillinger Escape Plan is tech metal, and they have reached #106 on the Billboard Top 200 Albums with “Miss Machine.” Does that count? ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2006, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/popular-songs-with-unusual-time-signatures/359614/51 "2006-06-08T05:14:01Z")
Radiohead, _The Tourist_ : 12/4, then 10/4, then back to triple time, IIRC. Not super-popular, but the closing number on probably their most well-known album _(OK Computer)_. ---
**Author:** ![thirdname](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d07c76/32.png) [@thirdname](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thirdname)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2006, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/popular-songs-with-unusual-time-signatures/359614/52 "2006-06-08T05:20:19Z")
[QUOTE=VCO3] Cite? It’s pretty clearly 4/4. [/QUOTE] [Google search “Hey Ya” “time signature”](http://www.google.com/search?q=%22hey%20ya%22%20%22time%20signature%22) Apparently it does have an extra 8 after what I just wrote and is thus in 22/8, or 11/4. It’s more like: DUMM, da-da, Dumm, da-da, Dumm, da-da, da-da. Dumm, da-da, Dumm, da-da. ---
**Author:** ![Rico](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rico/32/3582_2.png) [@Rico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rico)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2006, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/popular-songs-with-unusual-time-signatures/359614/53 "2006-06-08T07:12:21Z")
If you go back (quite a) few years to the Broadway musical _Man of La Mancha_, the song **Dulcinea** about Don Quixote’s unrequited love is in alternating measures of 6/8 and 3/4 time throughout the whole song. Looks strange written out, seeing a new time signature every measure. ---
**Author:** ![dnooman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/839c29/32.png) [@dnooman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dnooman)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2006, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/popular-songs-with-unusual-time-signatures/359614/54 "2006-06-08T07:32:00Z")
[QUOTE=Usram] And post-Gabriel Genesis’s “Turn it on Again” is 13/4 in places. [/QUOTE] Nope. I thought so too. Or, at least I thought it was something weird. Try counting quarter notes through the song, it fits. Multiples of 12 at least. > [@Airman Doors](#): > > Not exactly “popular”, but Nine Inch Nails’ March of the Pigs has a 29/8 time signature. Really? You fly-boys crack me up. Such complicated forms are usually broken down into components of “normal” time. Like 7+7+7+5, or somesuch. Yes and Rush are the kings of mixed signatures, that’s why geeks like them, and that’s why non-geeks will never understand them. Circle of life, and so on. ---
**Author:** ![dnooman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/839c29/32.png) [@dnooman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dnooman)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2006, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/popular-songs-with-unusual-time-signatures/359614/55 "2006-06-08T07:36:47Z")
[QUOTE=riker1384] [Google search “Hey Ya” “time signature”](http://www.google.com/search?q=%22hey%20ya%22%20%22time%20signature%22) Apparently it does have an extra 8 after what I just wrote and is thus in 22/8, or 11/4. It’s more like: DUMM, da-da, Dumm, da-da, Dumm, da-da, da-da. Dumm, da-da, Dumm, da-da. [/QUOTE] There is no 22/8. People that write music make smaller pieces that can add up to theese numbers, but they are only pieces. Said piece breaks down any number of ways. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2006, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/popular-songs-with-unusual-time-signatures/359614/56 "2006-06-08T11:21:38Z")
[QUOTE=dnooman] There is no 22/8. People that write music make smaller pieces that can add up to theese numbers, but they are only pieces. Said piece breaks down any number of ways. [/QUOTE] Surely you can have 22/8 in the same way you can have 6/8 or 4/4. ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2006, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/popular-songs-with-unusual-time-signatures/359614/57 "2006-06-08T11:44:06Z")
[QUOTE=wolf\_meister] **DooWahDiddy** “We Can Work It Out” had me fooled then. (Must have been those triplets). [/QUOTE] I have to disagree with both of you on that. To my ears it’s 4/4 with at least one 2/4 bar thrown in As in ```auto 1 2 3 4 {rest} {rest} And there's no ti- i- i- i- i- ime- {rest} {rest}for fuss- ing- and fight- ing my friend - {rest} {rest} I have always ... ``` - the 2/4 four bar is the gap between “friend” and “I” or, even better ```auto 1 2 3 4 {rest} {rest} And there's no ti- i- i- i- i- ime- {rest} {rest}for fuss- ing- and fight- ing my friend - {rest} {rest} I have always ... ``` - three 2/4 bars one after each other (I can see how you might try to parse it as two 3/4’s, but to my ears it’s three 2/4’s with triplets in them - definitely not all 4/4) ---
**Author:** ![DooWahDiddy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e9bcb4/32.png) [@DooWahDiddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DooWahDiddy)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2006, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/popular-songs-with-unusual-time-signatures/359614/58 "2006-06-08T12:35:34Z")
[QUOTE=Aspidistra] I have to disagree with both of you on that. To my ears it’s 4/4 with at least one 2/4 bar thrown in As in ```auto 1 2 3 4 {rest} {rest} And there's no ti- i- i- i- i- ime- {rest} {rest}for fuss- ing- and fight- ing my friend - {rest} {rest} I have always ... ``` - the 2/4 four bar is the gap between “friend” and “I” or, even better ```auto 1 2 3 4 {rest} {rest} And there's no ti- i- i- i- i- ime- {rest} {rest}for fuss- ing- and fight- ing my friend - {rest} {rest} I have always ... ``` - three 2/4 bars one after each other (I can see how you might try to parse it as two 3/4’s, but to my ears it’s three 2/4’s with triplets in them - definitely not all 4/4) [/QUOTE] You may want to go listen to the song again. You’re missing two beats in between “friend” and “I”. The piano and bass are playing a four-note descending pattern, all half notes, which you wouldn’t be able to do if one of the measures was 2/4. “Fighting” is on beat 1, “friend” is on beat 3, then there’s an entire measure where there are no vocals before “I”. Those two measures are basically 12 quarter-note triplets in a row. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2006, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/popular-songs-with-unusual-time-signatures/359614/59 "2006-06-08T12:41:26Z")
[QUOTE=dnooman] Nope. I thought so too. Or, at least I thought it was something weird. Try counting quarter notes through the song, it fits. Multiples of 12 at least. [/QUOTE] **Usram** was correct. The verses are in 13, or more accurately, alternating 6/4 and 7/4. Then it shifts to 4/4 for the “I can show you” part, but does a lot of time signature shifting on the briidge, on the “I, I get so lonely” part. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2006, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/popular-songs-with-unusual-time-signatures/359614/60 "2006-06-08T12:58:21Z")
[QUOTE=DooWahDiddy] You may want to go listen to the song again. You’re missing two beats in between “friend” and “I”. The piano and bass are playing a four-note descending pattern, all half notes, which you wouldn’t be able to do if one of the measures was 2/4. “Fighting” is on beat 1, “friend” is on beat 3, then there’s an entire measure where there are no vocals before “I”. Those two measures are basically 12 quarter-note triplets in a row. [/QUOTE] I just pulled out the sheet music to see how they handle this. (And of course I checked it against the record to make sure they hadn’t dropped any measures.) They actually notate “for fussing and” as a bar of 2/4 and a bar of 3/4 with a half note = dotted half note marking. Then four more bars of 3/4 and a return to 4/4 with dotted half = half. I’m not entirely sure I agree with this notational choice–to my ear, it means changing meter in the middle of a bar on “fussing”–but it works. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/popular-songs-with-unusual-time-signatures/359614.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/popular-songs-with-unusual-time-signatures/359614.md?page=4)