# Pornographic classical art? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 10, 2004, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pornographic-classical-art/279111 "2004-12-10T12:59:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2004, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pornographic-classical-art/279111/1 "2004-12-10T12:59:25Z")
After looking up shunga(japanese erotic art) in google after reading [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=291045), it occurs to me that I’ve never actually seen any pornographic classical western art. Sure, theres plenty of statues and paintings with people in various states of undress and the undertone of sex, the rape of the sabine women for example. But I’ve never actually seen art depicting two (or more) people in the act of copulation. It’s always just before or just after. Now, is this because museums refuse to place such collections where it can be viewed by children or because it just didn’t exist back in those days? I somehow doubt it to be the second option given how obsessed with sex the human race is. Are there any examples of classical, pornographic art out there? ---
**Author:** ![dre2xl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/34f0e0/32.png) [@dre2xl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dre2xl)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2004, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pornographic-classical-art/279111/2 "2004-12-10T13:21:02Z")
For what it is worth, you can look up vintage erotica. There are plenty of drawings and paintings. Here’s one example: [http://tallulahs.com/tmm5515.html](http://tallulahs.com/tmm5515.html) ---
**Author:** ![dre2xl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/34f0e0/32.png) [@dre2xl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dre2xl)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2004, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pornographic-classical-art/279111/3 "2004-12-10T13:23:36Z")
_foot in mouth_ ignore the above link. That’s a modern day attempt at replicating vintage erotica technique. In any case, you can look for vintage erotica paintings, although I don’t know of any that depicts a man and woman in copulation. I guess men don’t like to see other men involved with a woman. 😉 It’s also interesting to note that in vintage pornography, the women look far more _real_ than in modern pornography… they look like your typical housewife. ---
**Author:** ![Athena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2004, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pornographic-classical-art/279111/4 "2004-12-10T13:33:22Z")
There are TONS of greek vases and such depicting the types of acts you speak of. One common ploy was to put the money scene at the bottom of the cup so that you didn’t see it until you drank it up. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2004, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pornographic-classical-art/279111/5 "2004-12-10T13:39:27Z")
There is abundant erotica from the Renaissance, a primary example of which would be Pietro Aretino’s _I Modi_ book of erotic art, [published in 1527](http://www.libidomag.com/nakedbrunch/archive/europorn01.html) (link contains some mild Renaissance porn, so may not be work safe): > [@](#): > > The production of I modi involved three major artists of the Renaissance: Aretino, Guilio Romano and Marcantonio Raimondi. The trouble started in 1524 when Romano, a contemporary of Aretino’s and a great Mannerist painter, drew 16 scenes of copulating couples on some walls in the Vatican. One theory is that he was angry over the fact that Pope Clement VII had been late in paying for some work. (It is, however, conceivable that Romano had been commissioned to do this as his teacher, Raphael, had himself once been hired to paint erotic scenes in the bathroom of a cardinal at the Vatican.) > > Raimondi, another contemporary who happened to be one of foremost engravers of the time, made copper plates of Romano’s I modi (literally, “postures”), printed up copies and circulated them among the higher echelons of Roman society. The Pope, clearly outraged, ordered all prints and copper plates destroyed and made reprinting of I modi punishable by death. Romano fled town, while Raimondi was arrested and left to languish in the Vatican prison – until the intervention of a powerful Medici and Pietro Aretino. ---
**Author:** ![CJJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@CJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CJJ)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2004, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pornographic-classical-art/279111/6 "2004-12-10T15:40:22Z")
Quite a few frescos from Pompeii depicting erotic scenes can be seen [here](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erotic_art_in_Pompeii_%28low_quality%29) . I’ve been to Pompeii and Herculaneum, and though a few of these photos are difficult to see, in person it’s very clear what’s going on… Interesting side-note; my mother visited Pompeii during the 50’s, and tells me authorities there refused to allow women into the brothels. Today there are no such restrictions. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2004, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pornographic-classical-art/279111/7 "2004-12-10T16:20:21Z")
Also, Cecil Adams touches on the subject of classical pornography [here](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a1_074.html). ---
**Author:** ![luchalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/97f17d/32.png) [@luchalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/luchalibre)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2004, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pornographic-classical-art/279111/8 "2004-12-10T17:03:18Z")
Rembrandt drew some naughty pictures as well. ---
**Author:** ![Kizarvexius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/da6949/32.png) [@Kizarvexius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kizarvexius)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2004, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pornographic-classical-art/279111/9 "2004-12-10T18:38:05Z")
It takes a pretty extraordinary set of circumstances in order for a piece of artwork to survive for thousands of years. Textiles are extremely vulnerable to the ravages of time. Paintings chip, peel, and fade. Marble statues tend to shatter when tipped over. Buildings fall apart from neglect, collapse during earthquakes, or are reduced to rubble during war. Even during ancient times, the buying and selling (and stealing and forging) of great art was a lucrative business. Romans such as Gaius Verres wandered the eastern provinces, stealing every bit of statuary they could get their hands on – for their private collections. This does not even take into account the fact that the arts and artifacts of the ancients have not always been regarded as worthy of preservation for their own sake. Scholars cannot even estimate the number of ancient bronzes that have been melted down over the ages to be recast into cannons. Ancient temples have long been plundered – not only for their precious metals and jewels, but even for their construction materials. During the Renaissance, for example, it was not at all unusual for a wealthy family to “appropriate” a set of columns from a Roman temple in order to decorate their new villa. Nobody seemed overly concerned if this caused the temple to collapse. Don’t forget also the forces of religious extremism. Fanatical Christian and Muslim rulers have long denounced art and literature viewed as blasphemous, obscene, or subversive. So we probably shouldn’t wonder that so little erotic art has survived from the ancient world. Rather, we should be amazed that so much has survived. ---
**Author:** ![cckerberos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@cckerberos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cckerberos)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2004, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pornographic-classical-art/279111/10 "2004-12-10T19:05:31Z")
[Erotic Art of the Masters](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0686737776/qid=1102705295/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/103-5483336-3151829?v=glance&s=books&n=507846) contains a wide variety of pornographic art from around the world, including plenty from the West. It’s been a while since I’ve seen it, but IIRC it includes pornographic works by some pretty famous artists such as Degas.