# Portland, OR: What is an "illegal gun"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 19, 2010, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/portland-or-what-is-an-illegal-gun/550745 "2010-08-19T15:53:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![toadspittle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c0e974/32.png) [@toadspittle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toadspittle)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2010, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/portland-or-what-is-an-illegal-gun/550745/1 "2010-08-19T15:53:09Z")
Just saw [this article](http://bit.ly/aCFD8q) on a recent spate of shootings in Portland, Ore. Our Mayor said this: > [@](#): > > Mayor Sam Adams, the city’s police commissioner, highlighted a different problem. > > “We have too many illegal guns in this city,” Adams said. “This is not acceptable.” > > "We ask that anyone who has any information about the illegal use of a gun or the possession of a gun illegally to contact us, Adams said. “Right now we need Portlanders to be very vigilant. If they hear gunshots, call them in. Call 9-1-1. We want to know, even if you just suspect you heard gunshots. We need everyone’s eyes and ears out on this.” What constitutes “illegal possession of a gun” in Portland? I thought that Oregon had no gun registration requirements. What’s the scoop? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Slant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c57346/32.png) [@Mr.Slant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Slant)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2010, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/portland-or-what-is-an-illegal-gun/550745/2 "2010-08-19T15:58:47Z")
A whole lot of the stupid people that make trouble with guns are convicted felons, a class of persons not generally able to carry firearms lawfully. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2010, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/portland-or-what-is-an-illegal-gun/550745/3 "2010-08-19T16:09:36Z")
And in other news, hundreds detained in Oregon after their cars backfire. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2010, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/portland-or-what-is-an-illegal-gun/550745/4 "2010-08-19T17:11:13Z")
Plus IIRC certain weapons are restricted (machine guns like Uzi’s and machine pistols?) the second amendment notwithstanding. Does Oregon have concealment restrictions? Transport while loaded restrictions? ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2010, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/portland-or-what-is-an-illegal-gun/550745/5 "2010-08-19T17:58:14Z")
Your cite is pretty clear cut. It is illegal for felons, minors, those addicted to drugs, those convicted of domestic violence (even misdemeanor DV) and those under legal order not to possess firearms to possess firearms. Illegal use of a weapon includes cold blooded murder. Oregon is both a concealed carry and an open carry state, although there are some restrictions in certain places on OC. Most of the people who cause crime in our society are repeat criminals. This is simply solved by locking them up for the full bill when they’re convicted of a crime. The increased cost of incarceration is dwarfed by the savings of the cost to society of when these lizards roam free. For example, here in Wisconsin armed robbery is punishable by 40 years. A first offender rarely gets more than 3 years. Absurd! then our mucus mouthed pols whine about guns instead of doing something about the turds who are illegally using them. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2010, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/portland-or-what-is-an-illegal-gun/550745/6 "2010-08-19T23:59:09Z")
That’s because pretending to do something about crime (ie, draconian sentences) is a lot easier than actually doing something (such as providing the jails to keep people for that long). Political pressure to do something about specific crimes is usually short-term and intense, and is often resolved by passing meaningless laws increasing sentences even when they know that making people serve those ludicrous sentences is unreasonable or just plain logistically impossible. Hell, simple pot possession of ANY amount in your state carries a 6 month sentence for the first offense and 3.5 years for the second. Is it reasonable or practical to put someone in jail for 3.5 years over a single joint? You can theoretically be put in jail for 9 months for Prostitution in Wisconsin, is locking up every prostitute for the full nine months going to prove anything or deter prostitution much? ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/portland-or-what-is-an-illegal-gun/550745/7 "2010-08-20T01:04:16Z")
> [@toadspittle](#): > > What constitutes “illegal possession of a gun” in Portland? I thought that Oregon had no gun registration requirements. What’s the scoop? In virtually every state a handgun must be transferred through a FFL holder and a background check performed. Also, sometimes people make what are called “straw purchases”, short for “strawman”, meaning they are buying for someone unable to buy one for themselves due to various disqualifications. Other than that, I can’t see that the weapon itself is illegal. For such an allegedly “liberal” state, Oregon is relatively free as firearms go. They allow so-called “assault weapons”, they are a “shall issue” state, they allow NFA weapons, they have no registration requirements… I’m thinking that what’s illegal is the person carrying the weapon without a CCW permit (although open carry is also legal, albeit somewhat frowned upon), or the person is otherwise forbidden to have a weapon. I’d write the mayor and find out exactly what he meant if you really want to know. Anything else is a guess. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/portland-or-what-is-an-illegal-gun/550745/8 "2010-08-20T01:27:38Z")
Adams is a member of [Mayors Against Illegal Guns](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mayors_Against_Illegal_Guns), presumably his definition fits with theirs; they use a similarly amorphous definition. Detractors suggest that they want to attack legal gun rights, not illegal guns. Adams is most likely using a buzzword that doesn’t have a specific meaning in itself. ETA: He’s not listed on wikipedias list of members, but he is on the [official website](http://www.mayorsagainstillegalguns.org/html/members/members.shtml). ---
**Author:** ![EvilTOJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee59a6/32.png) [@EvilTOJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EvilTOJ)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/portland-or-what-is-an-illegal-gun/550745/9 "2010-08-20T10:56:31Z")
I would guess what he means by ‘illegal guns’ is ne’er-do-wells carrying pistols without a CCW, or the firearms are simply stolen. It’s highly unusual to have so many shootings here, especially in such a short time. I bet someone pissed someone else off mightily. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/portland-or-what-is-an-illegal-gun/550745/10 "2010-08-20T15:49:40Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Hell, simple pot possession of ANY amount in your state carries a 6 month sentence for the first offense There really aren’t many locals, though, that are charging state crime for first possession weed unless it’s over 10 grams. Usually it’s charged as an ordinance violation with a $375 fine (ordinance violations carry no jail time and are not criminal offenses). Some time ago the Dane County DA said he wasn’t even pressing that. ---
**Author:** ![Raza](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raza/32/213_2.png) [@Raza](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raza)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/portland-or-what-is-an-illegal-gun/550745/11 "2010-08-20T20:36:38Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > In virtually every state a handgun must be transferred through a FFL holder and a background check performed. I don’t think this is generally true. I believe in most states a private citizen can directly transfer a handgun to another private citizen residing in that state, assuming the recipient is not otherwise barred (felon, etc.). Unless I’ve misunderstood what you meant. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/portland-or-what-is-an-illegal-gun/550745/12 "2010-08-20T21:08:53Z")
> [@Raza](#): > > > [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > > > In virtually every state a handgun must be transferred through a FFL holder and a background check performed. > > I don’t think this is generally true. I believe in most states a private citizen can directly transfer a handgun to another private citizen residing in that state, assuming the recipient is not otherwise barred (felon, etc.). Unless I’ve misunderstood what you meant. No, you didn’t misunderstand. I did a little research and apparently it’s not as prevalent as I thought it was. How about that. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2010, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/portland-or-what-is-an-illegal-gun/550745/13 "2010-08-21T17:59:59Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > I did a little research and apparently it’s not as prevalent as I thought it was. How about that. Yup. According to [THIS](http://opencarry.org/privatetransfers.html) map very few states have restrictions on private sales. Generically this is the “gun show loophole” that Sarah Brady and others who can’t understand normal thinking bitch about. Someone owns a couple of guns, sells them privately at a gun show, and is not required to have a federal license because of the small amount they sell. Banning this will mean if you want to give/sell a gun to a buddy you’ll have to jump through hoops and pay hefty fees to have a dealer do it. And that will have no effect on criminals ability to get guns anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Susanann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@Susanann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susanann)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2010, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/portland-or-what-is-an-illegal-gun/550745/14 "2010-08-21T19:08:26Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > According to [THIS](http://opencarry.org/privatetransfers.html) map very few states have restrictions on private sales. . Weren’t nearly all handguns “illegal” in Chicago until the recent Supreme Court decision? Bottom line: With the severest gun restrictions in the country, Chicago became the most dangerous place in the country to live. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2010, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/portland-or-what-is-an-illegal-gun/550745/15 "2010-08-21T20:28:21Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > Yup. According to [THIS](http://opencarry.org/privatetransfers.html) map very few states have restrictions on private sales. Generically this is the “gun show loophole” that Sarah Brady and others who can’t understand normal thinking bitch about. Someone owns a couple of guns, sells them privately at a gun show, and is not required to have a federal license because of the small amount they sell. Banning this will mean if you want to give/sell a gun to a buddy you’ll have to jump through hoops and pay hefty fees to have a dealer do it. And that will have no effect on criminals ability to get guns anyway. OMG, it might become as difficult as selling a car!! I don’t know if adding more rules on registering guns will have an affect of crime, but I’m shocked at how shocked everyone is about the prospect of treating guns like we do cars. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2010, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/portland-or-what-is-an-illegal-gun/550745/16 "2010-08-21T20:30:53Z")
> [@Susanann](#): > > > [@pkbites](#): > > > > According to [THIS](http://opencarry.org/privatetransfers.html) map very few states have restrictions on private sales. . > > Weren’t nearly all handguns “illegal” in Chicago until the recent Supreme Court decision? > > Bottom line: With the severest gun restrictions in the country, Chicago became the most dangerous place in the country to live. Yeah, you would have thought a city with a rash of gun crimes would loosen the laws, maybe just give them away at birth to every citizen. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2010, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/portland-or-what-is-an-illegal-gun/550745/17 "2010-08-21T21:53:47Z")
Sorry, my posts are out of line for GQ. Forgot what forum I was in. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2010, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/portland-or-what-is-an-illegal-gun/550745/18 "2010-08-22T01:50:13Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > Forgot what forum I was in. You also forgot that the goal of these boards is to fight ignorance, not wallow it: > [@DanBlather](#): > > I don’t know if adding more rules on registering guns will have an affect of crime, but I’m shocked at how shocked everyone is about the prospect of treating guns like we do cars. Nowhere did I mention “registering” guns in the post you quoted. Eliminating the so called “gun show loophole” does not (at least in most states) “register” guns. It forces private parties to transfer a gun by having a federally licensed dealer perform a criminal background check on the receiver of the gun. This, in it’s self does not create a registry. It can, however, cost oodles of money because the dealer has to charge the background fee he’s charged, plus he can charge whatever other fees he wishes. Quite a bureaucratic crock of shit to go through and have to pay for if all you want to do is sell or give a gun to a friend. And if your friend was a criminal who wouldn’t pass the background check, he’d just steal the gun from you anyway. End of “gun show loophole” works, how?😕 ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2010, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/portland-or-what-is-an-illegal-gun/550745/19 "2010-08-22T02:57:35Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > It can, however, cost oodles of money because the dealer has to charge the background fee he’s charged, plus he can charge whatever other fees he wishes. Quite a bureaucratic crock of shit to go through and have to pay for if all you want to do is sell or give a gun to a friend. > > And if your friend was a criminal who wouldn’t pass the background check, he’d just steal the gun from you anyway. End of “gun show loophole” works, how?😕 That’s why I don’t buy cars anymore, I just steal them. That damned title process is such a pain. You have to show that you actually _own_ the car, that you have insurance, and know how to drive. ---
**Author:** ![Susanann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@Susanann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susanann)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2010, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/portland-or-what-is-an-illegal-gun/550745/20 "2010-08-22T13:46:18Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > I don’t know if adding more rules on registering guns will have an affect of crime, but I’m shocked at how shocked everyone is about the prospect of treating guns like we do cars. I dont think anybody said that, because there are cars everywhere in this country, and cars are everywhere, even though there is no Constitutional right to own a car. Furthermore, there is no “need” for citizens(other than police) to actually privately own a car. Cars are not needed for self-defense. I dont think anybody said that, because just about anybody can buy a car. A child can buy a car if he has the money. He might not be able to get a drivers license, but he can buy a car. There is no background checks done when somebody buys a car. People sell cars that are parked on the street. If a car is bought for cash and the buyer tells no one, then there is no record of that car even being bought. An ex-convict can buy a car. A person who was convicted of a misdemeanor domestic violence charge 50 years ago can still buy a car. A person with mental illness history can buy a car. Anybody can buy any car they want, the fastest and the most powerful ever built. There are no limits on the size and power of a car that can be bought. There also are no limits as to how many cars somebody can own, and no limits to how many cars a person can buy in a single month. A foreigner in this country or even an illegal alien can buy a car. NOt only are our laws on cars so lax that anybody buy a car, but anybody can get th parts and build a car. If guns were anywhere as easy to get as cars(they are NOT!!!), then there would be guns all over this country. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/portland-or-what-is-an-illegal-gun/550745.md?page=2)