# Portland, Oregon schools to allow anti-war groups in addition to military recruiters **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 25, 2011, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/portland-oregon-schools-to-allow-anti-war-groups-in-addition-to-military-recruiters/600762 "2011-10-25T19:09:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/portland-oregon-schools-to-allow-anti-war-groups-in-addition-to-military-recruiters/600762/1 "2011-10-25T19:09:09Z")
From the [Army Times](http://www.armytimes.com/news/2011/10/ap-oregon-city-schools-to-allow-antiwar-groups-102411w/): > [@](#): > > PORTLAND, Ore. — The Portland school board on Monday was set to adopt a policy that gives anti-war “counter-recruiters” the same access to high school students that the military gets. > > The policy is like those already in place in Seattle, San Francisco and some other cities, the Oregonian newspaper reported. > > “What we want is a balanced account of military service,” said school board member Matt Morton, one of at least four board members supporting the policy. I wholeheartedly concur with this decision. Military service is a job you can’t just quit, and it also involves killing human beings. It’s a very weighty decision. There are also some pretty well reasoned, cogent arguments that the current military conflicts we are engaged in are unneccesary and immoral. Regardless of whether one agrees with those arguments, young men and women at such an important crossroad in their lives should have access to a different point of view. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/portland-oregon-schools-to-allow-anti-war-groups-in-addition-to-military-recruiters/600762/2 "2011-10-25T20:10:08Z")
If only they were “counter-recruiting,” in the sense of offering the young people civilian jobs with steady pay, housing and health care. All they can do is make the case for pacifism (at a debate at a high school assembly against whoever the military hires to represent its viewpoint ); and legal advocacy for teenagers who may be signing an arguably not at all on-the-level contract. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/portland-oregon-schools-to-allow-anti-war-groups-in-addition-to-military-recruiters/600762/3 "2011-10-25T20:13:31Z")
I’m a strong believer in local control of schools. If this is what the parents want, so be it. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/portland-oregon-schools-to-allow-anti-war-groups-in-addition-to-military-recruiters/600762/4 "2011-10-25T20:56:32Z")
I’m in full agreement. Typical public schools won’t offer any course that addresses moral philosophy, so students have no chance to be exposed to arguments against warfare and militarism in school. This could serve as a corrective to that. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/portland-oregon-schools-to-allow-anti-war-groups-in-addition-to-military-recruiters/600762/5 "2011-10-25T22:41:40Z")
I think I disagree. Should we also allow abortion protesters and anti-vaccination nutballs access to high schools so they can warn kids about the moral hazards of the medical professions? I think job recruiters, whether they’re military or not, should have equal access to make their pitch to high schoolers, but that protest movements should not. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/portland-oregon-schools-to-allow-anti-war-groups-in-addition-to-military-recruiters/600762/6 "2011-10-25T23:35:50Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > I think I disagree. Should we also allow abortion protesters and anti-vaccination nutballs access to high schools so they can warn kids about the moral hazards of the medical professions? I’m as pro-choice as they come, but if there was a Planned Parenthood table at a school event, I wouldn’t be too distraught about a pro-life group being allowed to set up a table as well as long as they didn’t harass the people going to the PP table. Anti-vaccination folks aren’t making a claim about morality, they are making a claim about **fact**. Their claim is that vaccines cause autism. This has been repeatedly demonstrated to be incorrect. But there’s no scientific test to verify whether abortion is “wrong”, or whether United States military intervention around the world is “wrong.” > [@](#): > > I think job recruiters, whether they’re military or not, should have equal access to make their pitch to high schoolers, but that protest movements should not. As I’ve noted before, the military is unlike any other job. If you sign up and then subsequently find out you hate it, you can’t just quit it without serious consequences (jail time, dishonorable discharge, etc). It’s very much like indentured servitude. It also may involve killing other human beings. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2011, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/portland-oregon-schools-to-allow-anti-war-groups-in-addition-to-military-recruiters/600762/7 "2011-10-28T14:43:30Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > I think I disagree. Should we also allow abortion protesters and anti-vaccination nutballs The imaginary negative consequences of vaccination are not quite as well established as the very real negative consequences of war. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2011, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/portland-oregon-schools-to-allow-anti-war-groups-in-addition-to-military-recruiters/600762/8 "2011-10-28T15:19:36Z")
See, I disagree with this as well. It goes like this: America is full of pro-defense and anti-war people. Everyone goes to the polls and elects officials who decide how big our military is. Our current crop of popularly elected officials decides that we need 3 million people, give or take, in uniform. They also decide that this should be an all volunteer force. In order to get 3 million people, the military needs to offer ample pay, benefits, education, bonuses, and on top of that, they apparently need to sugar coat everything. In return, they get a lot of lower-class people who are just in it for the money. Everyone knows this, and yet we continue to elect officials who decide that we need 3 million people in the military. People who object to the military’s current recruitment tactics need to go vote for folks who will reduce the size of the military down to the level where those tactics are not required. Voting for people who want to maintain the current size of the military while undermining their recruitment efforts is counter-productive, and subverts the democratic process. If you want a smaller military, go vote that way. If you lose, suck it up. ---
**Author:** ![cckerberos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@cckerberos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cckerberos)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2011, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/portland-oregon-schools-to-allow-anti-war-groups-in-addition-to-military-recruiters/600762/9 "2011-10-28T17:24:32Z")
I’m okay with it, so long as the “counter-recruiters” actually act as such, pointing out the problems that come with a military contract, telling the kids to get everything in writing, etc. If they’re just going to be pushing a generic pacifist viewpoint I have a lot more concerns with it; I don’t like the idea of outside groups being given special access to students for the purpose of promoting political ideas.