Portland's "no on fluoride" morons

My sister-in-law and brother-in-law lived beside a family who couldn’t afford food for their kids (they were over at my relatives’ house eating regularly). I don’t know this for sure, but logic says that a family who can’t afford food isn’t buying a lot of toothpaste and fluoride rinses.

I was raised on well water - just today I went and got my first bridge put in. Countless cavities, six crowns, two root canals, one extraction, and one bridge - that’s what Calgary’s kids have to look forward to now. I hope they enjoy it as much as I have.

My own frickin’ *father *started believing this anti-fluoride crap 20 or so years ago. And he used to be quite level-headed and scientifically literate. He now believes that Australia is the only place in the world that still fluoridates its water, and that it causes all manner of disease, especially cancer. Why then do we have no more disease than comparable countries? No answer, he simply cannot discuss this (or any health-related) subject on a rational basis, just repeats the exact same sentence over and over and over.

[unzips] Please. [hangs head in shame]

Fluoridation does indeed keep the teeth strong and healthy. This is why all vampires support it.

And they moved south. We’ve got a pile of them here, complaining about “medication without our consent,” lobbying city council, and writing numerous letters-to-the-editor of the local paper.

My veterinarian neighbour is fighting the good fight against them; but in spite of the fact that he is extremely knowledgeable in mammalian and avian biology and biochemistry; keeps up-to-date with the latest research in veterinary and human matters; reviews respected human and veterinary scientific journals on topics involving water fluoridation (after all, horses, cows, pigs, dogs, and cats drink local water too); can cite favorable-to-fluoridation conclusions from such sources as the American CDC, the Canadian Dental Association, and similar; and has concluded that fluoridated water is an ultimate benefit, he is dismissed as a crank by uneducated people whose only cite is “Well, Calgary got rid of it.” :rolleyes:

What a bunch of shitty shit. Water fluoridation is probably one of the great scientific success stories of our time. My mother even gave me fluoride tablets as a kid, and I haven’t had a SINGLE cavity yet (knock on wood) and I’m nearly 27. Just an anecdote, I know, but the statistics showing improved tooth health and water fluoridation is irrefutible.

I’m just so fucking sick and tired of this. I can’t stand it. This is 2013 people! We are supposed to have moved beyond all this anti-science crap. :frowning: :frowning: :frowning:

The discussion is a little more nuanced than this thread would indicate. We discussed this same topic not too long ago, and what I said in that context is, I believe, still relevant:

There are families for whom regular dentist visits, fluoride toothpaste and other simple measures are not practicable. If the same resources used to fluoridate the municipal water supply were used, instead, to provide access to these materials at no cost to the consumer, some studies have shown that the net benefit to the community would be similar.

There are communities which provide fluoride compounds in such comestibles as milk and salt, as well as fluoride supplements. The advantage is that dose may be more tightly controlled, the compounds would be consumed by individuals who have made a conscious decision to ingest them, and the community could freely provide these items to those who desire them at a cost much less than fluoridating the entire community’s water supply, whether they desire it or not.

There is also compelling evidence that fluoride is most effective as a topical application (toothpaste, mouthwash, rinse, gel, etc.) rather than systemic dosages.

Fluoride in the public water supply has been one of the greatest health achievements in history, a fact which is undeniable. The question before many members of the voting public is, “Is this the best way to provide this benefit?”

It’s part of the phenomenon of crank magnetism.

Water fluoridation, vaccination, chemtrails, aspartame, you name it…all part of the government-corporate plan to sicken and kill us with the goal of selling us more stuff. Makes perfect sense.

Years ago, I moved to Bend, Oregon. On my first visit to the dentist, as soon as she saw my teeth she asked me where I’d moved from, because it was obvious that I wasn’t local. I asked her how she could tell, and she said it was because I didn’t have the “microcavities” that the locals had- because I had clearly grown up in an area which had fluoridated water.

DHMO, there was something I forgot to ask you last time around: is that 6% figure really accurate for Florida? I thought watering and stuff was generally done with reclaimed water, which I presume is not flouridated.

[QUOTE=HL Mencken]
Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance.
[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=HL Mencken]
Civilization, in fact, grows more and more maudlin and hysterical; especially under democracy it tends to degenerate into a mere combat of crazies;
[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=HL Mencken]
Democracy is the art of running the circus from the monkey cage.
[/QUOTE]

We can’t have fluoridated water and democracy simultaneously. Benevolent dictatorship is the obvious solution.

We are on a well. So when I brush my teeth, I always swallow a little bit of toothpaste in order to consume some fluoride. I bet that would drive my conspiracy-obsessed friend nuts if he knew. :stuck_out_tongue:

They do provide fluoride tablets but the effectiveness is limited. Kids only get them on school days (you can’t take them home), so nothing on weekends/holidays and all of summer. There is also a stigma against it for whatever reason. Kids find it embarrassing to go up in front of the class to get their fluoride tablet.

I get what you’re saying, but if there really are better ways of providing it, why aren’t we? On a theoretical level, there are lots of ways that seem to make more sense than adding it to the water supply. Yet dental health is consistently better where it is added. Until it is proven that other options are equally effective - both from a scientific aspect as well as a social aspect - then I think it’s disingenuous to argue against it.

The science is easy. It’s delivering the fluoride to everyone that we haven’t been able to figure out, other than adding to the water supply.

That was one of the things that I was afraid of - that Calgary’s shameful actions will be held up as a good thing by junk science morons.

DMHO, I don’t doubt what you’re telling us; I don’t think the junk science morons care in the slightest about what you’re talking about; they only want the Evil Flouride (their usual spelling) Chemical out of their water. Never mind that it is found naturally in a lot of water; never mind all the studies showing the benefits; never mind that there might be better ways to accomplish healthy fluoridation; they just want it out, and they don’t care what the results will be.

It might not be “better” but certainly fluoridating other things is a valid option. France fluoridates its salt, for example, and not its water.

But the idea there may be better substances is a tad overstated. Not everybody drinks milk or consumes dairy products (especially the lactose intolerant). And while salt works, we don’t have town by town salt companies. And that’s really the problem. Every municipality provides water. Individual towns can’t control national salt production. Or even local milk (or at least guarantee everybody drinks it). And distributing supplements can be pricy and we have a hard enough time convincing taxpayers roads are worth paying for, much less medicinal supplements, much less getting insurance companies to cover any more stuff.

Water is one of the few universally available things we can fluoridate and fluoridate cheaply to which everybody not only has access but can be reasonably guaranteed to be able to consume without thinking much about it.

I’ve given up the struggle with my family in Portland and my wife’s family out in the rural nowhere. Their pristine revitalizing well water, tapped beneath their flood drainage plain land and filtered through 100 years of agricultural pesticides, fertilizers and livestock, is in no way contributing to the endless cavities and rotting teeth. Why, nature and evolution never intended humans to ingest such dangerous chemicals like flouride, so it must be harmful (they straightfacedly argue while sipping from their Pepsi).

I grew up with flouridation. One cavity my whole life, neither insane nor under government mind control.

Indeed. That is why the media, blogosphere and Intertubes now are, apart from this one little fluoride thing, entirely free of climate-change denial, evolution denial, racial pseudoscience, alternative-medicine bullshit . . .

Does that work? Is the fluoride in toothpaste absorbed into the bloodstream if swallowed? If so…cool! (I live in a water district that rejected fluoridation. Pigshit bastards…)

(I’ve always wanted to find a toothpaste I could swallow, because I hate spitting…)

Fluoride only needs to be applied topically to your teeth for maximum benefit. Although it’s not going to hurt you, there’s no need to ingest it.