# Portrayals of Asian Men and Asian Women in media/ entertainment **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 30, 2003, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/portrayals-of-asian-men-and-asian-women-in-media-entertainment/151681 "2003-01-30T19:02:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![jeevmon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/87869e/32.png) [@jeevmon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jeevmon)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/portrayals-of-asian-men-and-asian-women-in-media-entertainment/151681/1 "2003-01-30T19:02:07Z")
This thread was inspired by[this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=158831) concerning dating and marriage between Asian females and non-Asian (typically white) men. The issue arose in that thread of media portrayals, and I contributed the following observations: > [@](#): > > But ignoring the roles of media portrayals would be a mistake. Asian women tend to be much more visible in the mainstream media and entertainment industries than Asian men. (examples- Lucy Liu, Lisa Ling, Lauren Tom, Connie Chung, Amy Tan, Ming-Na Wen). Asian men, by comparison, are relatively invisible. When they are shown, they are either shown as nerdy, horny guys (Eddie Chin in the “American Pie” movies, Mickey Rooney’s Mr. Yunioshi in “Breakfast at Tiffany’s”), sexless martial arts masters (Jackie Chan), as villains (e.g. Dr. Fu-Manchu, Oddjob), or as sidekicks or comic relief (the Indian doctor in the “Short Circuit” movies and the Indian programmer in “Office Space” come to mind). Some are slowly starting to cross over (e.g. Chow Yun-Fat), but it’s still a rare phenomenon. More importantly, Asian men are not typically shown in sexual roles, except to the extent that they are the geeky guys who want sex but never get it. Jackie Chan may kick a lot of ass, but in his American movies at least, he doesn’t get much of it. As I was considering this issue further, I thought of another example. CBS’ “Presidio Med” series is set in a hospital in San Francisco, but there isn’t a single Asian character in the main cast. I’m sorry, but given San Francisco’s high Asian population, and the high proportion of Asians in medicine, it’s simply ludicrous that a San Francisco hospital would not have at least one Asian doctor. The point I was trying to make in the prior thread was that Asian women enjoy a high degree of visibility in media and entertainment, and are generally shown as being involved with or married to non-Asian, particularly white, men. Asian men, by contrast, are virtually invisible in the media except in certain stereotyped roles, and that pairings between Asian men and Asian women, or Asian men and non-Asian women, are very difficult if not impossible to find. Can anyone think of other examples? ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/portrayals-of-asian-men-and-asian-women-in-media-entertainment/151681/2 "2003-01-30T19:10:59Z")
Do you want examples of disrepresentation or of non-stereotypical roles? (non-stereotypical roles would probably be a shorter list). I work in a hospital in San Fran, and if that show doesn’t have ~40% of the people in it Asians, then it is oboviously fake. (and no one should be able to drive to work without being there 8 years or a high ranking job.) Jackie Chan and Jennifer Love Hewitt were seen dating at the end of Tuxedo (only movie i recall him dating a white girl). That new film with the Indian guy becoming a famous guru or something looks like it might be less stereotypical, but i haven’t seen it (or even know when it comes out, or its name). and Sulu on Star Trek. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/portrayals-of-asian-men-and-asian-women-in-media-entertainment/151681/3 "2003-01-30T19:15:08Z")
This is easy to explain. All asian men are tech geeks or ninjas with small penises, and all asian women are either chick ninjas or porn stars. I’m just kidding by the way, so don’t hate me. This reminds me of a skit on Mad TV where the asian cast member (can’t remember name) played the average asian who sucked at math and could drive very well. It was funny ---
**Author:** ![jeevmon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/87869e/32.png) [@jeevmon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jeevmon)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/portrayals-of-asian-men-and-asian-women-in-media-entertainment/151681/4 "2003-01-30T19:38:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tars Tarkas \* > \*\*Do you want examples of disrepresentation or of non-stereotypical roles? (non-stereotypical roles would probably be a shorter list). > > I work in a hospital in San Fran, and if that show doesn’t have ~40% of the people in it Asians, then it is oboviously fake. (and no one should be able to drive to work without being there 8 years or a high ranking job.) > > Jackie Chan and Jennifer Love Hewitt were seen dating at the end of Tuxedo (only movie i recall him dating a white girl). That new film with the Indian guy becoming a famous guru or something looks like it might be less stereotypical, but i haven’t seen it (or even know when it comes out, or its name). > > and Sulu on Star Trek. 🙂 \*\* Check the [info](http://www.cbs.com/primetime/presidio_med/) about the show on the CBS website. No Asians in the main cast. Also, IIRC, the long-running ER has only had an Asian female doctor, never an Asian male doctor, and certainly not in the regular cast. (And don’t get me started on the fact that in all of these medical shows, you almost never see an Asian Indian doctor. Um, hello? Have any of you Hollywood types actually been in an American hospital recently?) As far as Star Trek, it’s an interesting example, because wasn’t Chief O’Brien married to an Asian woman? I’m sure they thought it was progressive at the time, but we could stand to see a little bit coming the other way. ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/portrayals-of-asian-men-and-asian-women-in-media-entertainment/151681/5 "2003-01-30T19:47:03Z")
Harry Kim had random alien women who liked him (i think his ex-fiancee was white), but i didn’t care enough about the show to pay attention, especially to something Harry was doing (him being annoying and all). O’Brien married Keiko, and they had two kids at last count. I guess Paul Blackthorne being in an Indian movie once counts as having Asians in their cast. No black people either, but they have their jewish guy as token minority. I hope all these doctors are fluent in Cantonese, Russian, Mandarin, and Spanish, otherwise they can’t treat 80% of this town! ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/portrayals-of-asian-men-and-asian-women-in-media-entertainment/151681/6 "2003-01-30T20:44:48Z")
Hmm… well, B.D. Wong plays a smart, insightful psychologist on “Law and Order” and its spinoff, “SVU.” But the mere fact that I had to think a long time to come up with that one example of a non-stereotypical Asian male on TV means the OP had a point. ---
**Author:** ![jeevmon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/87869e/32.png) [@jeevmon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jeevmon)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/portrayals-of-asian-men-and-asian-women-in-media-entertainment/151681/7 "2003-01-30T21:02:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by astorian \* > \*\*Hmm… well, B.D. Wong plays a smart, insightful psychologist on “Law and Order” and its spinoff, “SVU.” But the mere fact that I had to think a long time to come up with that one example of a non-stereotypical Asian male on TV means the OP had a point. \*\* Hm, does he get any on screen? ---
**Author:** ![II\_Gyan\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/bbe5ce/32.png) [@II\_Gyan\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/II_Gyan_II)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/portrayals-of-asian-men-and-asian-women-in-media-entertainment/151681/8 "2003-01-30T21:09:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tars Tarkas \* > \*\*That new film with the Indian guy becoming a famous guru or something looks like it might be less stereotypical, but i haven’t seen it (or even know when it comes out, or its name). > \*\* It’s **The Guru**. A typical comedy of a foreigner from a …well …foreign culture landing right in the center of the elite Westerners. Wonder if in this case, thematically Deepak Chopra was the inspiration behind it. [hint, hint]. Although the actual plot differs completely. I guess the biggest carrier of stereotype regarding Indians is Apu in the Simpsons. As such, it’s accurate enough in the nuances even if most Indians don’t like to acknowledge it. ---
**Author:** ![Gozu\_Tashoya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/7993a0/32.png) [@Gozu\_Tashoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gozu_Tashoya)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/portrayals-of-asian-men-and-asian-women-in-media-entertainment/151681/9 "2003-01-30T21:20:54Z")
Not criticizing you or anything, but it boggles the mind that all “Asians are being marginalized” movie discussions totally ignore _Joy Luck Club_ (incidentally also one of my entries into the “movies with Asian men” discussion). Then there’s Chao in the now-cancelled(?) _Off Centre_ which was on the WB. Granted, he’s a horny Asian kid, just like the guy in American Pie 2, but then _everybody_ in that show and that movie were horny teens, so it’s kinda skewed data. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/portrayals-of-asian-men-and-asian-women-in-media-entertainment/151681/10 "2003-01-30T21:26:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tars Tarkas \* > \*\*Harry Kim had random alien women who liked him (i think his ex-fiancee was white), but i didn’t care enough about the show to pay attention, especially to something Harry was doing (him being annoying and all). > \*\* As I recall though, his romantic liaisons were mostly just mentioned in passing, rather than being prominently depicted. Then again, I stopped paying attention to _Star Trek: Gilligan_ toward the last few years. ---
**Author:** ![jeevmon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/87869e/32.png) [@jeevmon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jeevmon)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/portrayals-of-asian-men-and-asian-women-in-media-entertainment/151681/11 "2003-01-30T21:28:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Gyan9 \* > \*\* > I guess the biggest carrier of stereotype regarding Indians is Apu in the Simpsons. As such, it’s accurate enough in the nuances even if most Indians don’t like to acknowledge it. \*\* Apu is a bit of a sticking point. I do enjoy “The Simpsons” but also find Apu to be fairly problematic. The character has evolved and been given nuance and is generally shown to be no less an idiot than anyone else in the show. But he is an identifiably South Asian character in a sort of stereotypical South Asian role (the convenience store operator), who speaks with a definite accent. He’s a more positive character now than he was in the early days, but it’s hard to watch some of the early season appearances without cringing. And considering that it wasn’t until I moved to Chicago that I encountered a significant body of South Asians who were taxi drivers, convenience store clerks, gas station attendants, and newspaper stand operators, as opposed to college professors, research scientists, engineers, or doctors, I think your statement about Apu being accurate in the nuances is quite incorrect. There are aspects of the broad strokes that have a degree of truth, but he’s certainly not representative of anything. ---
**Author:** ![cuauhtemoc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecb155/32.png) [@cuauhtemoc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cuauhtemoc)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/portrayals-of-asian-men-and-asian-women-in-media-entertainment/151681/12 "2003-01-30T21:37:02Z")
First of all, many Indians _love_ Apu. 😃 Now then, has anyone seen Jay Chandrasekhar’s _Super Troopers_? It’s one of those movies that’s really stupid, but also really funny. Director Chandrasekhar plays Arkat Ramathorn (Thorny), one of a group of wacky state troopers in Vermont. He doesn’t have an accent, and his Indian-ness is not acknowledged except for one time, when one of the rival local cops pretends to mistake him for a waiter. “I’ll have the enchiladas…” he says (or something like that". This confuses one of Thorny’s mates, prompting Thorny to turn to him and explain “They think I’m Mexican”. Funny stuff. And Thorny has this hot hippy girlfriend in the movie. They have a kid together, and they’re always getting it on. Anyway, this is just one example. Years ago I noticed that Indian and other South Asian people were not highly represented in television and movies, and I wondered why. East Asians were there, but mostly in stereotypical roles, like Arnold from Happy Days. But South Asians were hardly represented at all, which is confusing. Maybe it was because there wasn’t an established stereotype to work with until now. Living in New Jersey, I’ve known Indians and Pakistanis most of my life, but until they had greater numbers in the rest of the country, maybe TV producers thought people wouldn’t be able to relate? Those were just some random thoughts, I’ll shut up now.:o ---
**Author:** ![InTransit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e47774/32.png) [@InTransit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InTransit)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/portrayals-of-asian-men-and-asian-women-in-media-entertainment/151681/13 "2003-01-30T21:43:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jeevmon \* > \*\*Hm, does he get any on screen? \*\* There’s not a whole lot of lovin’ on the show, jeevmon. Those who are getting any are usually the perps. This thread is errie because recently, a friend and I were trying to compile a list of “Hot Asian Male Hollywood Actors” and as you can imagine, the list was pretty short. Why we were doing this is irrelevant… plus, it’s a little silly and I’d rather not go into that. :o Off topic **jeevmon** , I wanted to thank you for your thoughtful post on the other page, the one that inspired this thread. It’s refreshing to see a cool-headed POV from an Asian male that is not filled with accusations of betrayal to “your people” and “White boys are stealing our women” pseudo-sociological rants. /Off topic In an admittedly sad attempt to add to this list, there used to be an Asian character on the _Gilmore Girls_, Henry, who was set up to be Lane’s (Asian female) love interest. He did not seem geeky or stereotypically Asian (except that he was going to medical school). Unfortunately, Henry didn’t stick around for long and Lane is now interested in Dave, a white male. I think the actor who played Henry then went onto “That 80s Show”. ---
**Author:** ![jeevmon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/87869e/32.png) [@jeevmon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jeevmon)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/portrayals-of-asian-men-and-asian-women-in-media-entertainment/151681/14 "2003-01-30T21:50:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by KKBattousai \* > \*\*Not criticizing you or anything, but it boggles the mind that all “Asians are being marginalized” movie discussions totally ignore _Joy Luck Club_ (incidentally also one of my entries into the “movies with Asian men” discussion). > > Then there’s Chao in the now-cancelled(?) _Off Centre_ which was on the WB. Granted, he’s a horny Asian kid, just like the guy in American Pie 2, but then _everybody_ in that show and that movie were horny teens, so it’s kinda skewed data. \*\* Well, actually, “Joy Luck Club” and the work of Amy Tan does feature in these discussions, but not in the way that you might think. [http://ryanlee.org/library/view-book?book\_id=217](http://ryanlee.org/library/view-book?book_id=217) [http://www.nyu.edu/clubs/generasian/spring01/Spotlight/joy\_luck1.htm](http://www.nyu.edu/clubs/generasian/spring01/Spotlight/joy_luck1.htm) [http://mahdzan.com/fairy/papers/asian/asian05.htm](http://mahdzan.com/fairy/papers/asian/asian05.htm) [http://democracyweb.com/asian/media/interrac.htm](http://democracyweb.com/asian/media/interrac.htm) [http://www.jademagazine.com/15dp\_woo2.html](http://www.jademagazine.com/15dp_woo2.html) I haven’t read the book or seen the movie, so I can’t speak to the validity of these criticisms. My point was not that Asians generally are being marginalized. It was that Asian _men_ in particular are marginalized and relegated to stereotypical roles. And Asian women are shown happiest in relationships with white men. ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/portrayals-of-asian-men-and-asian-women-in-media-entertainment/151681/15 "2003-01-30T22:00:42Z")
[http://www.nyu.edu/clubs/generasian...t/joy\_luck1.htm](http://www.nyu.edu/clubs/generasian...t/joy_luck1.htm) was by Julia Oh, who wrote the articcle i asked about in the other thread’s OP. Seems to be written in the same style. IIRC, Joy Luck was against traditional Asian men (whether stereotypical or not, i do not know for certain, but my friends in lab who are asain women do not have nice things to say about “traditional” asian relationship practices). Another book they read was called China Man by some Asian lady (who married a white guy, and wrote another book i can’t recall the name of) which was supposed to be a tribute to the asian men in her family, but the men all came out as sexist pigs. My asian friend got feed up and she stopped reading it (after complaining about eveything being incorrect, including a bride singing a song about “shooting her mom” on her wedding day, as some sort of tradition) ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/portrayals-of-asian-men-and-asian-women-in-media-entertainment/151681/16 "2003-01-30T22:02:48Z")
Let’s see, as long as we’re listing Asian characters on TV, there’s “Bug” from _Crossing Jordan_, BD Wong as the priest on _Oz_ and Vern Yip on _Trading Spaces_ (I know, he’s a real person, but still he’s quite a character!). All presented as sexless for one reason or another, one presented as a technical guy (Vern’s an architect). ---
**Author:** ![jeevmon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/87869e/32.png) [@jeevmon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jeevmon)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/portrayals-of-asian-men-and-asian-women-in-media-entertainment/151681/17 "2003-01-30T22:15:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tars Tarkas \* > \*\*[http://www.nyu.edu/clubs/generasian...t/joy\_luck1.htm](http://www.nyu.edu/clubs/generasian...t/joy_luck1.htm) was by Julia Oh, who wrote the articcle i asked about in the other thread’s OP. Seems to be written in the same style. IIRC, Joy Luck was against traditional Asian men (whether stereotypical or not, i do not know for certain, but my friends in lab who are asain women do not have nice things to say about “traditional” asian relationship practices). Another book they read was called China Man by some Asian lady (who married a white guy, and wrote another book i can’t recall the name of) which was supposed to be a tribute to the asian men in her family, but the men all came out as sexist pigs. My asian friend got feed up and she stopped reading it (after complaining about eveything being incorrect, including a bride singing a song about “shooting her mom” on her wedding day, as some sort of tradition) \*\* Well, the question is, were there any “nontraditional” Asian men depicted in the book? The criticism I’ve often heard levelled against Amy Tan is that she dislikes Asian men and therefore does not depict Asian men in a favorable light in her books. I can’t speak to whether this is a valid criticism or not, but I’ve heard it from a number of sources, so there must be _something_ behind it. ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/portrayals-of-asian-men-and-asian-women-in-media-entertainment/151681/18 "2003-01-30T22:37:13Z")
I don’t know her personally, so i cannot answer that. If i had time i’d start tackleing her books, but between work, classes, studying for classes, and other books i already have in queue, i wouldn’t get to them until next year. ---
**Author:** ![litost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c4cdca/32.png) [@litost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/litost)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/portrayals-of-asian-men-and-asian-women-in-media-entertainment/151681/19 "2003-01-30T22:38:48Z")
How can one explain the fact that Jackie Chan, hero par excellence, doesn’t have a female to kiss (or…) towards the end of the film? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Lance\_Murdoch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/47e85d/32.png) [@Captain\_Lance\_Murdoch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Lance_Murdoch)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/portrayals-of-asian-men-and-asian-women-in-media-entertainment/151681/20 "2003-01-30T22:52:40Z")
Amy Tan was on the radio one day in Minneapolis and one caller leveled the charges against her that she desexualizes Asian men. Ms. Tan reacted in the tone of “I’m very, very tired of hearing this accusation.” She said (I’m paraphrasing) she had nothing against Asian men and she wasn’t interested in censuring her writing in a politically correct fashion to appease anyone. As for the difference in the way Asian men and women are portrayed in movies well Asians tend to be small. Small women are generally thought top be sexy. Small men are not. If it weren’t for the matial arts, Asian men would be hard to find on screen at all. I don’t count Indians as Asians for this discussion, because I think it’s a different race. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/portrayals-of-asian-men-and-asian-women-in-media-entertainment/151681.md?page=2)