# Positive Gun News of the Day **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 22, 2015, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-gun-news-of-the-day/735490 "2015-10-22T22:57:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 24
**Author:** ![Esox\_Lucius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Esox\_Lucius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esox_Lucius)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-gun-news-of-the-day/735490/461 "2016-02-04T22:29:19Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > So you are saying the US is uncivilized in this matter. Okay well, good luck with that. The collective morality of the US disagrees with you. Thanks, but I don’t need luck. I have the vast majority of civilized nations on my side. The lone wolf needs luck, not the pack. ---
**Author:** ![Esox\_Lucius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Esox\_Lucius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esox_Lucius)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-gun-news-of-the-day/735490/462 "2016-02-04T22:31:58Z")
> [@Orwell](#): > > Two Concealed Carry Customers Thwart Armed Robbery > > [http://www.wistv.com/story/31036728/police-two-concealed-weapons-holders-killed-suspect-during-barbershop-robbery](http://www.wistv.com/story/31036728/police-two-concealed-weapons-holders-killed-suspect-during-barbershop-robbery) The Good Guys™ started a shootout _in a room with children_. Is that in the responsible gun owners’ handbook? ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-gun-news-of-the-day/735490/463 "2016-02-04T23:12:55Z")
> [@Esox\_Lucius](#): > > Thanks, but I don’t need luck. I have the vast majority of civilized nations on my side. The lone wolf needs luck, not the pack. Really? The North Koreans, among others, will be glad to know they are part of your “pack.” :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Orwell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/dfb087/32.png) [@Orwell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orwell)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2016, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-gun-news-of-the-day/735490/464 "2016-02-05T01:31:14Z")
> [@Esox\_Lucius](#): > > The Good Guys™ started a shootout _in a room with children_. Is that in the responsible gun owners’ handbook? You seem to have a lot of faith that masked armed robbers are going to behave like predictable perfect gentlemen and not use the guns they are wielding. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2016, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-gun-news-of-the-day/735490/465 "2016-02-05T01:45:07Z")
> [@Esox\_Lucius](#): > > The Good Guys™ started a shootout _in a room with children_. Is that in the responsible gun owners’ handbook? Were I there carrying, I would be tempted to let them go away. It worked at a Red Lobster robbery here in Little Rock. Five guys were carrying, and all independently decide not to try and shoot five bad guys before they shot back. One would sure feel like hell if the robbers began shooting witnesses because one didn’t shoot them, though. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2016, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-gun-news-of-the-day/735490/466 "2016-02-05T06:17:07Z")
4th Circuit Court of Appeals decision in[Kolbe v. Hogan.](http://www.ca4.uscourts.gov/Opinions/Published/141945.P.pdf) At issue was the Maryland Firearms Safety Act (FSA) which was a feature based assualt weapon ban, specific rifle and pistol ban, and a ban on magazines with a capacity greater than 10 rounds. It exempted _retired police_ from many of the provisions as well. At the district level, the court applied intermediate scrutiny and somehow upheld the FSA. The reasoning was, paraphrasing, because it wasn’t a total ban and other firearms were available, then it was permissible. In addition, the district court concluded that magazine were not firearms and therefore were not covered by the 2nd amendment. The case was appealed to the 4th circuit. From the opinion: > [@](#): > > In our view, Maryland law implicates the core protection of > the Second Amendment—“the right of law-abiding responsible > 7 > citizens to use arms in defense of hearth and home,” District of > Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570, 635 (2008), and we are > compelled by Heller and McDonald v. City of Chicago, 561 U.S. > 742 (2010), as well as our own precedent in the wake of these > decisions, to conclude that the burden is substantial and strict > scrutiny is the applicable standard of review for Plaintiffs’ > Second Amendment claim. **Thus, the panel vacates the district > court’s denial of Plaintiffs’ Second Amendment claims and > remands for the district court to apply strict scrutiny.** (my bold) Sent back down to the district level so they can apply the correct level of scrutiny. If this holds, I’m optimistic that the FSA will fall. The ruling could go en banc or go to SCOTUS, but for now this is a big win. Some of the key ideas the opinion focused on were the concepts of “dangerous \*\*and \*\*unusual” and “in common use”. This court determined that a firearm must be both dangerous AND unusual, else it would fall under the 2nd amendment. In addition, it noted that the AR-15 platform semi-automatic rifle is the most common rifle today: > [@](#): > > We think it is beyond dispute from the record before us, > which contains much of the same evidence cited in the > aforementioned decisions, that law-abiding citizens commonly > possess semi-automatic rifles such as the AR-15. Between 1990 > and 2012, more than 8 million AR- and AK-platform semi-automatic > rifles alone were manufactured in or imported into the United > States. J.A. 1877. In 2012, semi-automatic sporting rifles > accounted for twenty percent of all retail firearms sales. J.A. > 22 > 1880. For perspective, we note that in 2012, the number of ARand > AK-style weapons manufactured and imported into the United > States was more than double the number of Ford F-150 trucks > sold, the most commonly sold vehicle in the United States. > … > Likewise, the record in this case shows unequivocally that > LCMs are commonly kept by American citizens, as there are more > than 75 million such magazines in circulation in the United > States. In fact, these magazines are \*\*so common that they are > standard. \*\* (my bold) The court was dismissive of this so called “high capacity” claim. The court also expressly rejected the argument that other types of weapons were available so the ban was okay. It cited Heller calling this frivalous and chided other circuits for adopting this reasoning that was specifically rejected in Heller. The court did however uphold the exemption for retired police, defeating the equal protection claim. This part I think was wrong - retired police have no special power or duty that regular citizens have and there is basis to support exempting this class of people from any law. I did enjoy this retort to the dissent: > [@](#): > > Our distinguished dissenting colleague asserts that we have > imprudently and unnecessarily broken with our sister courts of > appeal and infers that we will bear some responsibility for > future mass shootings. In our view, inferences of this nature > have no place in judicial opinions and we will not respond > beyond noting this. Is this a judicial F U? ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2016, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-gun-news-of-the-day/735490/467 "2016-02-05T16:33:06Z")
In other news, [1 teen killed, 1 injured in home invasion](http://www.ksat.com/news/1-teen-killed-1-injured-in-home-invasion) > [@](#): > > One teen is dead and three others are in police custody after investigators said they tried to break into a home on the city’s South Side Friday morning. > > The attempted break-in happened in the 400 block of West Baylor. > > Police said the homeowner there fired shots at the teen burglars. He is not expected to face charges. > > Juan Zamora, 17, and Efrain Torres, 18, were arrested and charged with burglary. > > Police said a 16-year-old boy who had a slight graze wound on his chest was also arrested and taken to the juvenile detention center. 4 people with weapons vs 1. Another reminder that home burglary isn’t always perpetrated by 1 person at a time. ---
**Author:** ![Esox\_Lucius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Esox\_Lucius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esox_Lucius)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2016, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-gun-news-of-the-day/735490/468 "2016-02-05T18:56:12Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Really? The North Koreans, among others, will be glad to know they are part of your “pack.” :rolleyes: LOL!! Go ahead and explain how a dictatorship that bans guns to suppress its people is equivalent to a democracy that controls–not bans–guns for public safety. If you can do that, Grasshopper… Repeating a ridiculous meme doesn’t make it any less ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Esox\_Lucius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Esox\_Lucius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esox_Lucius)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2016, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-gun-news-of-the-day/735490/469 "2016-02-05T18:59:11Z")
> [@Orwell](#): > > You seem to have a lot of faith that masked armed robbers are going to behave like predictable perfect gentlemen and not use the guns they are wielding. > [@carnivorousplant](#): > > One would sure feel like hell if the robbers began shooting witnesses because one didn’t shoot them, though. Yeah, better to guarantee that the thieves will start shooting rather than go with the overwhelming likelihood that they won’t. The flimsiest of pretences is a perfect reason to start a gunfight in a closed room with kids. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2016, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-gun-news-of-the-day/735490/470 "2016-02-05T19:05:26Z")
> [@Esox\_Lucius](#): > > Repeating a ridiculous meme doesn’t make it any less ridiculous. Ah Sensei, how am I to accept that you have achieved enlightenment when you don’t follow your own advice? It seems to me that your pack is so uncivilized that even they recognize they cannot be trusted with anything more dangerous than a spork. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2016, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-gun-news-of-the-day/735490/471 "2016-02-06T07:54:38Z")
In other news, [Homeowner Shoots Intruders In South Columbus](http://www.10tv.com/content/stories/2015/11/16/columbus-hanford-homeowner-shoots-intruders.html) > [@](#): > > A south Columbus home invasion ended in gunfire Monday morning. > > Police said two people broke into a home around midnight on East Hanford Street near Parsons Avenue. > > Officers said the homeowner opened fire at the alleged intruders. Both ran away despite being hit by bullets. DGU with no deaths. Another home invasion with multiple criminals. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2016, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-gun-news-of-the-day/735490/472 "2016-02-07T15:44:21Z")
In other news,[Utility worker grabs own gun to kill armed man who tried to rob him, St. Louis County police say](http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/st-louis-county-police-say-utility-worker-killed-man-attempting/article_ff1fbec1-fcd8-5d16-8fb7-2cf81779f75a.html) > [@](#): > > Police say three contractors for ADB Utility Co. were working on water lines near that intersection when an armed robber approached two of the workers who were standing near a company truck. > > The robber took wallets from the two men, 49 and 58 years old, at gunpoint before turning his attention to a third man, 22, nearby, police said. The robber told the third man to give him his belongings that were inside of a work truck, according to police. > > That third robbery victim had a handgun stored inside the truck, and as the robber held him at gunpoint, the victim fired one shot at the robber, striking him in the chest. The robber died at the scene, police said. 1 robber was able to subdue 3 victims, until one of the victims was able to retrieve his firearm. ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2016, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-gun-news-of-the-day/735490/473 "2016-02-07T17:17:58Z")
Perp should have quit at 2 successes and instead his greed got him dead. Works for me… ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2016, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-gun-news-of-the-day/735490/474 "2016-02-08T15:23:47Z")
In other news, [Police: Homeowner shoots suspects during attempted robbery in Northeast Philly](http://www.phillyvoice.com/homeowner-shoots-suspects-robbery-ne-philly/) > [@](#): > > Police say the homeowner pulled out a gun when three masked males attempted to rob him. He reportedly shot an 18-year-old multiple times in the chest and right side and a 15-year-old male in the finger. The third suspect was not injured. > > The two injured suspects were taken to Jeanes Hospital, where they are in stable condition. 3 vs 1 and the one prevailed. DGU with no deaths. Multiple hits to the chest and the person is in stable condition. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2016, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-gun-news-of-the-day/735490/475 "2016-02-09T12:37:51Z")
Homeowner shot someone in the finger? Was he aiming for the center of mass and his aim sucked, or did he shoot a weapon out of the dude’s hand? ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2016, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-gun-news-of-the-day/735490/476 "2016-02-09T15:59:08Z")
In other news, [80-year-old rancher shoots out tires on intruder’s getaway vehicle](http://www.kolotv.com/home/headlines/351786121.html) > [@](#): > > “I had a shotgun, and my son had a pistol,” said Foster. “We tried to stop them and they wouldn’t, so we popped their back tires.” > > The intruders drove about a half mile down the road and abandoned their car not far from Foster’s home. > > Foster and his son followed the suspects until they got out, ran into the woods, prompting an all-day manhunt. > > “There was an extensive search of the area. Deputies, detectives. . . they looked throughout the area,” said Lamar County Sheriff Scott Cass. > > Deputies say they found Keene and Varner inside another home late Tuesday night, where they had showered, fallen asleep, and set aside hunting equipment they found in the house that they were planning to steal. I’m unclear as to the timing of the tires being shot. DGU with no deaths. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2016, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-gun-news-of-the-day/735490/477 "2016-02-09T17:07:21Z")
Thanks for keeping up with this thread. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2016, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-gun-news-of-the-day/735490/478 "2016-02-09T17:24:22Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > You’re really arguing the idea that a person of average build in middle age can’t summon enough energy to inflict great bodily harm sans weapons? How strange. If you are set on this belief I won’t try to convince you. It is quite bizarre. Maybe your ‘average middle-aged person’ goes to the gym regularly, and had had recent experience in fighting. :dubious: At any rate, it’s not a matter of ‘energy,’ whatever you mean by that, it’s about being both unfit and unskilled for fighting. I’m pretty fit by middle-aged-guy standards, but the latter factor would mean I’d do little damage in a fight. > [@](#): > > Do you have a response? Yes. You said some stuff in post #443. I responded in #447. You are apparently upset that in that response, I ignored _stuff you hadn’t said yet_. For most of us, the flow of time is still unidirectional. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2016, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-gun-news-of-the-day/735490/479 "2016-02-09T18:10:45Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Maybe your ‘average middle-aged person’ goes to the gym regularly, and had had recent experience in fighting. :dubious: > > At any rate, it’s not a matter of ‘energy,’ whatever you mean by that, it’s about being both unfit and unskilled for fighting. I’m pretty fit by middle-aged-guy standards, but the latter factor would mean I’d do little damage in a fight. > Yes. You said some stuff in post #443. I responded in #447. You are apparently upset that in that response, I ignored _stuff you hadn’t said yet_. > > For most of us, the flow of time is still unidirectional. How many fights that don’t involve the word “school” somewhere in the description have you ever been in? I suspect that it is a very small number and your judgement on who is able to damage an opponent is suspect. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2016, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-gun-news-of-the-day/735490/480 "2016-02-10T16:30:56Z")
In other news, [Cincinnati Police: Gas station owner shot armed suspect in East Price Hill](http://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news/hamilton-county/cincinnati/east-price-hill/cincinnati-police-gas-station-clerk-shot-robbery-suspect-in-east-price-hill) > [@](#): > > Officers got a report of a robbery at the Marathon station at Warsaw Avenue and Del Monte Place at 7:45 p.m., Lt. Craig Gregoire said. > > At some point, the owner shot at the armed suspect, Gregoire said. A bullet grazed the man in the stomach, and he flagged down an officer about a block and a half away, on Del Monte, Gregoire said. He added that officers recovered a gun from the suspect. > > The station owner wasn’t harmed. DGU with no deaths. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-gun-news-of-the-day/735490.md?page=23) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-gun-news-of-the-day/735490.md?page=25)