# Positive Gun News of the Day **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 22, 2015, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-gun-news-of-the-day/735490 "2015-10-22T22:57:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 48
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2016, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-gun-news-of-the-day/735490/941 "2016-07-13T13:25:02Z")
DeSoto, TX Waffle House Armed robber with AK-47 [shot by customer who was legally carrying a concealed handgun](http://www.dallasnews.com/news/crime/headlines/20160712-robber-with-ak-47-was-shot-by-waffle-house-customer-desoto-police-say.ece) > [@](#): > > …Customers told police that the man had come into the restaurant, armed with an AK-47, and robbed numerous people as well as the business. > > One customer, who was legally carrying a concealed handgun, followed the robber into the parking lot because he was afraid for the safety of his wife, who was on her way to the Waffle House. > > The customer called out to the robber, who turned and pointed the rifle at him, police said. The customer then shot the robber several times. DGU with one robber on life support. Police seeking assistance to identify him ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2016, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-gun-news-of-the-day/735490/942 "2016-07-13T15:09:23Z")
In other news, [UPDATED: Home invasion suspect killed today](http://dailyjournalonline.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/updated-home-invasion-suspect-killed-today/article_49d8ecf4-0e2a-5191-8a8a-79a09a992cb0.html) > [@](#): > > “There was a single shot fired and what we have determined so far was the resident in the home, who was an elderly male, was sitting down at the dining room table to eat lunch when he saw a truck pull up really close to the house in the yard,” said Jacobsen. “He thought it was odd the person pulled up so close and he had a weapon on the table next to him, for reasons yet to be determined.” > > Jacobsen said just as the man was wondering why these people would pull up so close to the house, he got up and went to the door. The suspects immediately started kicking or hitting the door. That’s when the man ran back to the dining room table just a few feet away and grabbed his pistol. > > “He had a safety chain that was securing the door shut and the door came open a little ways with the security chain catching it,” said Jacobsen. “At that point he has the firearm in his hand and he points it and fires a shot, which he describes as a warning shot. That’s when he saw two male figures flee from the front porch and he thought they were going to the rear of the home so he ran into the kitchen and locks the rear door.” DGU with one death. The characterization of a “warning shot” is by the police, though the elderly resident may have thought it better to describe it that way. Generally warning shots are a terrible idea. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2016, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-gun-news-of-the-day/735490/943 "2016-07-14T01:16:35Z")
> [@Iggy](#): > > DeSoto, TX Waffle House Armed robber with AK-47 [shot by customer who was legally carrying a concealed handgun](http://www.dallasnews.com/news/crime/headlines/20160712-robber-with-ak-47-was-shot-by-waffle-house-customer-desoto-police-say.ece) Does the end justify the means? I can’t believe the stupidity of someone armed with a handgun who would pursue a criminal with an AK-47 as he was leaving the scene of the crime. This crosses a line. The robber was no longer an immediate threat and any threat to the man’s wife was imagined–she wasn’t even there. That sounds to me like an excuse from a guy itching to be a hero. The robber had left the restaurant and was in the parking lot, presumably to make his getaway. ---
**Author:** ![Orwell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/dfb087/32.png) [@Orwell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orwell)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2016, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-gun-news-of-the-day/735490/944 "2016-07-14T01:39:28Z")
> [@](#): > > I can’t believe the stupidity of someone armed with a handgun who would pursue a criminal with an AK-47 as he was leaving the scene of the crime. I have to admit this is my thought as well. Following the guy out was foolish and reckless. Shooting the robber while still in the restaurant would have been completely justified, but following him out after the threat had (mostly) passed is very questionable. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2016, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-gun-news-of-the-day/735490/945 "2016-07-14T02:18:10Z")
> [@Orwell](#): > > I have to admit this is my thought as well. Following the guy out was foolish and reckless. Shooting the robber while still in the restaurant would have been completely justified, but following him out after the threat had (mostly) passed is very questionable. Shooting him in a room full of people, or out on the street. A Bad Guy was killed. Good job. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2016, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-gun-news-of-the-day/735490/946 "2016-07-14T02:28:34Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Shooting him in a room full of people, or out on the street. > A Bad Guy was killed. Good job. If I was a good guy with a gun, and I saw a guy in the street getting shot in the back, what is the appropriate action? ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2016, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-gun-news-of-the-day/735490/947 "2016-07-14T03:57:54Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > If I was a good guy with a gun, and I saw a guy in the street getting shot in the back, what is the appropriate action? If he is getting shot, hide, you have no information and no need get into it. If you just think he might get shot, be sure to look first to see if both have weapons. If so, hide.Get your phone out and video what is happening. If I was in the cafe and I thought the guy might come back and there were too many people around for a gun fight, I would go after him outside if I felt a gun fight needed to happen right now. If I am reading about this after the fact, I would refrain from giving opinions on what others were thinking during the event that they were at and I wasn’t.. I don’t want anybody to think they know what I think, what I would do or think that I will just stand by. But that is just me. When someone needs killin, it does not make any difference to me which way he is facing. In my house or in the street. But again, that is just me. ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2016, 9:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-gun-news-of-the-day/735490/948 "2016-07-14T09:57:49Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > Does the end justify the means? I can’t believe the stupidity of someone armed with a handgun who would pursue a criminal with an AK-47 as he was leaving the scene of the crime. This crosses a line. The robber was no longer an immediate threat and any threat to the man’s wife was imagined–she wasn’t even there. That sounds to me like an excuse from a guy itching to be a hero. The robber had left the restaurant and was in the parking lot, presumably to make his getaway. So a guy walking down the street with an AK-47 who you know just robbed a restaurant and several patrons is not a threat? Is it unreasonable to believe he may be a danger? And how long must patrons cower in fear? Use of deadly force is justified in defending yourself or others. Others. Like anyone this violent criminal might come upon… like the wife of the customer who had just been robbed. The wife who was reportedly on her way to the restaurant. And when the patron went outside the robbed pointed his AK-47 at the patron. Use of deadly force to defend your own life is justified. ---
**Author:** ![Orwell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/dfb087/32.png) [@Orwell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orwell)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2016, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-gun-news-of-the-day/735490/949 "2016-07-14T11:52:56Z")
> [@Iggy](#): > > And when the patron went outside the robbed pointed his AK-47 at the patron. Use of deadly force to defend your own life is justified. I definitely agree there. But the question remains - why did he follow the guy out of the restaurant? And you can be sure that question will come up if there is a civil trial where the robber’s family asks for millions of dollars in damages. And, no, I’m not saying everything you do should be prefaced with thoughts of civil damages, but it is pertinent in this instance. I wouldn’t cast a guilty verdict in either a criminal or civil trial, but following the guy out of the restaurant and yelling to him MAY go beyond self defense to a lot of people. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2016, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-gun-news-of-the-day/735490/950 "2016-07-14T12:12:44Z")
> [@Orwell](#): > > I definitely agree there. But the question remains - why did he follow the guy out of the restaurant? And you can be sure that question will come up if there is a civil trial where the robber’s family asks for millions of dollars in damages. And, no, I’m not saying everything you do should be prefaced with thoughts of civil damages, but it is pertinent in this instance. I wouldn’t cast a guilty verdict in either a criminal or civil trial, but following the guy out of the restaurant and yelling to him MAY go beyond self defense to a lot of people. IANAL. _But_, could his defense be that he was attempting to effect a citizen’s arrest? ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2016, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-gun-news-of-the-day/735490/951 "2016-07-14T13:59:02Z")
In either case, an armed citizen pursuing an armed criminal \*leaving \*the scene of a crime is Wild West vigilantism. I have never heard of police simply walking up and confronting an armed suspect. The article says only, “The customer called out to the robber, who turned and pointed the rifle at him, police said.” We don’t know what he said, or where he stood as he said it. We do know that he aggressively placed himself in danger after the immediate threat had passed. > [@kayaker](#): > > IANAL. _But_, could his defense be that he was attempting to effect a citizen’s arrest? The article said the citizen was not arrested, so apparently he needs no defense. (Defense of stupidity masquerading as bravery is another story.) It seems that he could have [legally made a citizen’s arrest](http://c.ymcdn.com/sites/www.sanantoniobar.org/resource/resmgr/imported/CitizensArrest.pdf) (PDF file); the criteria in this case for a citizen’s arrest were clearly met (does not constitute unreasonable search and seizure, felony, and committed in the presence of the citizen), but it is not clear that is what he was actually attempting to do. Like I said, the end doesn’t justify the means. “Bad guy dead. Good.” is not how our law enforcement system works. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2016, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-gun-news-of-the-day/735490/952 "2016-07-14T14:03:49Z")
> [@GusNSpot](#): > > If he is getting shot, hide, you have no information and no need get into it. I can see that one guy is shooting and the other isn’t. I sure don’t want to make a mistake and have him shoot others. That would make me a sheeple. ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2016, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-gun-news-of-the-day/735490/953 "2016-07-14T14:47:00Z")
> [@Orwell](#): > > I definitely agree there. But the question remains - why did he follow the guy out of the restaurant? And you can be sure that question will come up if there is a civil trial where the robber’s family asks for millions of dollars in damages. And, no, I’m not saying everything you do should be prefaced with thoughts of civil damages, but it is pertinent in this instance. I wouldn’t cast a guilty verdict in either a criminal or civil trial, but following the guy out of the restaurant and yelling to him MAY go beyond self defense to a lot of people. Texas has civil immunity in cases of self defense so the shooter should be covered unless the DA determines the shooting wasn’t justified and obtains a conviction. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2016, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-gun-news-of-the-day/735490/954 "2016-07-14T15:04:49Z")
I wouldn’t recommend pursuing a person in that circumstance myself, but the fact pattern may dictate other action. The article doesn’t give more information to make a different determination but it certainly does not say that the AK-47 wielder was shot in the back. It presents the necessary conditions for lethal self defense. * * * In other news, [Man skipped sentencing, now faces murder charge](http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2016/04/07/man-charged-in-accomplices-death-was-supposed-to-be-in-prison.html) > [@](#): > > One of two men charged with murder after an accomplice died during a home invasion on the Far East Side was supposed to have been in prison for a shooting he committed last year. > > Khomary Rand, 23, was facing five years in prison after pleading guilty in January to felonious assault, but he was free on bond and didn’t show for his Feb. 19 sentencing. A bench warrant for his arrest was still in effect when police said that he, Deshawn Lovejoy and Nathaniel Easley robbed the occupants of a condominium on MacAndrews Way on Wednesday night. > … > Police were called about 7 p.m. to the McNeill Farms condominium development off East Broad Street. They said Easley, 24, of Raphael Drive on the Far East Side, was shot inside a condo but collapsed outside. He died at Mount Carmel East. > … > Police were called by a man who said there had been a shooting after “a white truck just invaded my house.” A Columbus police officer working special-duty in the area spotted a white SUV driving erratically. Police chased and stopped it nearby, arresting Lovejoy and Rand. DGU with one death. 3 vs what appears to be 1 and the one prevailed. Looks like one of the robbers would have been better off serving a sentence for assault rather than than a murder charge. Why a person convicted of a felony assault is out on bail is beyond me. ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2016, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-gun-news-of-the-day/735490/955 "2016-07-15T01:33:05Z")
> [@](#): > > Fear Itself Fear Itself is online now > Double Secret > Charter Member > > Join Date: Apr 1999 > Location: Flavortown > Posts: 33,597 > > > [@](#): > > > > Originally Posted by GusNSpot View Post > > If he is getting shot, hide, you have no information and no need get into it. > > I can see that one guy is shooting and the other isn’t. I sure don’t want to make a mistake and have him shoot others. That would make me a sheeple. Nah, caution makes you old. Lack of thinking stops that progression.😃 Getting shot is not ‘about to get shot.’ :rolleyes: I don’t get into it until I can see if the living guy is a good guy or a bad guy, how far away he is, what weapon I am carrying right then and other things that to me indicate I need to go fast slowly in determining whither I get involved. Oh, he is an off duty cop, oh he is a mad crazy killer, it is someplace in-between, oh their are obvious civilians just past the two involved in the shooting right in my line of fire… Yeah, I don’t need to get into it. 😉 Once I decide to get into it and actually kill someone over it, then the gun comes out and I try real hard to get/be behind the one I am going to shot and then shoot until he quits wiggling, reload and get to a safe place to wait for the cops or be able to defend myself from the bad guys friends that are now pouring out of that place with (oh my God, assault rifles with cop killer bullets special made for piercing armor. ) and this is gonna get bad real quick, I really should have just stayed out out of it because I did not think it through. :smack: I get in a lot of trouble when I turn my brain off and then I pull out my weapon. I am trying to get better. The only name calling that I listen to is from me to me. So far, no one, not even me has ever called me ‘sheeple.’ 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2016, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-gun-news-of-the-day/735490/956 "2016-07-15T15:16:50Z")
In other news, [Man holds would-be burglar at gunpoint](http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2016/apr/08/man-holds-would-be-burglar-at-gunpoint/) > [@](#): > > The neighbor told police that his son alerted him to the stranger who had jumped the fence next door and that he watched the man kick the woman’s back door. She and several children were reportedly home at the time. When the neighbor began yelling, the man reportedly advanced toward him and threatened to kill him several times while swinging the pole, according to court documents. > > The neighbor pulled out a handgun and was able to convince the man to drop the pole. The man sat on the lawn until police arrived, according to court documents. Several people told police they witnessed the confrontation. DGU with no injuries. Burglar brought a pole to a gun fight. I like the description, “convinced the man”. Another very good neighbor. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2016, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-gun-news-of-the-day/735490/957 "2016-07-15T15:35:49Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > In other news, [Man holds would-be burglar at gunpoint](http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2016/apr/08/man-holds-would-be-burglar-at-gunpoint/) > > DGU with no injuries. Burglar brought a pole to a gun fight. I like the description, “convinced the man”. Another very good neighbor. Dammit Bone, almost exactly what I was going to post! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c57346/32.png) [@Little\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Pig)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2016, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-gun-news-of-the-day/735490/958 "2016-07-16T21:44:02Z")
Wayne LaPierre blows off his pecker while cleaning his six-shooter. - Just wish’in. Hey! You asked… ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2016, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-gun-news-of-the-day/735490/959 "2016-07-18T04:25:36Z")
> [@Little\_Pig](#): > > Wayne LaPierre blows off his pecker while cleaning his six-shooter. > > - Just wish’in. Hey! You asked… This is a warning for threadshitting. I am not going to assume you read the entire thread and ignored the previous instructions but you should know that responding to a thread just to dump on the premise is being a jerk. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2016, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-gun-news-of-the-day/735490/960 "2016-07-18T04:43:24Z")
I can’t tell from the video if the bad guy’s finger was outside the trigger guard. I guess the clerk thought so. Otherwise he wouldn’t have grabbed the barrel. Still seems like a very risky move. It’s is a positive gun story. Bad guy flees. No shots fired. The robber put innocent customers and the clerk at risk. > **[7-Eleven clerk caught on video disarming shotgun-wielding would-be robber](https://www.foxnews.com/us/7-eleven-clerk-caught-on-video-disarming-shotgun-wielding-would-be-robber)** > > A Maryland convenience store clerk is being hailed a hero after he was caught on camera disarming a would-be robber who pointed a shotgun at his face. > [@](#): > > A Maryland convenience store clerk is being hailed a hero after he was caught on camera disarming a would-be robber who pointed a shotgun at his face. > > In the footage, the clerk at a 7-Eleven in Frederick never flinches as he grabs the barrel of the gun and wrestles it out of the suspect’s hand. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-gun-news-of-the-day/735490.md?page=47) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-gun-news-of-the-day/735490.md?page=49)