# Positive Gun News of the Day **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 22, 2015, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-gun-news-of-the-day/735490 "2015-10-22T22:57:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 74
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2018, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-gun-news-of-the-day/735490/1461 "2018-08-03T16:13:05Z")
The NRA Says It’s in Deep Financial Trouble, May Be ‘Unable to Exist’ > [@](#): > > In the new document — an amended complaint filed in U.S. District Court in late July — the NRA says it cannot access financial services essential to its operations and is facing “irrecoverable loss and irreparable harm.” > > Specifically, the NRA warns that it has lost insurance coverage — endangering day-to-day operations. “Insurance coverage is necessary for the NRA to continue its existence,” the complaint reads. Without general liability coverage, it adds, the “NRA cannot maintain its physical premises, convene off-site meetings and events, operate educational programs … or hold rallies, conventions and assemblies.” > > … > > The NRA claims it “has encountered serious difficulties obtaining corporate insurance coverage to replace coverage withdrawn.” In addition, the NRA contends that “multiple banks” have now balked at doing business with it “based on concerns that any involvement with the NRA — even providing the organization with basic depository services —would expose them to regulatory reprisals.” > **[The NRA Says It's in Deep Financial Trouble, May Be 'Unable to Exist'](https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/nra-financial-trouble-706371/)** > > The NRA could shut down in its current form, according to a legal filing against the state of New York and Gov. Cuomo ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2018, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-gun-news-of-the-day/735490/1462 "2018-08-03T16:17:58Z")
Putin’s got their backs, don’t worry. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2018, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-gun-news-of-the-day/735490/1463 "2018-08-06T15:32:49Z")
In other news, [Police: Armed bystander takes down gunman at Titusville back-to-school event:](https://www.wftv.com/news/local/police-investigate-shooting-at-titusville-park/806192101) > [@](#): > > The shooting occurred at Isaac Campbell Park on South Street shortly after 5:20 p.m. when the shooter, whom police have not identified, returned to the park after a fistfight and began firing, investigators said. > > A bystander, who was licensed to a carry a firearm, shot the gunman, police said. He was taken to a hospital with life-threatening injuries, police said. DGU with no deaths. A person came to a back to school event where kids were gathering school supplies and started shooting. A vendor on site quickly engaged the shooter and stopped him with his carry firearm. What could have been so much worse was ended quickly on site with only the attacker being injured. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2018, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-gun-news-of-the-day/735490/1464 "2018-08-07T08:03:04Z")
A classic example of defensive gun use that averted a tragedy. ---
**Author:** ![Orwell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/dfb087/32.png) [@Orwell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orwell)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2018, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-gun-news-of-the-day/735490/1465 "2018-08-07T13:21:46Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > A classic example of defensive gun use that averted a tragedy. Absolutely. Several or many lives were likely saved. And how much coverage was the story given on CNN, ABC, CBS, NBC, NY Times, WaPost, etc.? Not much, from my quick review. It simply doesn’t fit their agenda. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2018, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-gun-news-of-the-day/735490/1466 "2018-08-07T13:43:02Z")
> [@Orwell](#): > > Absolutely. Several or many lives were likely saved. And how much coverage was the story given on CNN, ABC, CBS, NBC, NY Times, WaPost, etc.? Not much, from my quick review. It simply doesn’t fit their agenda. There are over 13,000 gun homicides in the US each year and maybe twice that many non-fatal shootings. So, yeah, they are not all reported by CNN, ABC, CBS, NBC, NY Times, WaPost, etc., because if they did there would be nothing on the news but shootings, and individually they are not of national interest. It has nothing to do with an agenda. When you have 66 shootings in one city in one weekend (Chicago), that tends to make national news. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2018, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-gun-news-of-the-day/735490/1467 "2018-08-07T17:01:54Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > There are over 13,000 gun homicides in the US each year and maybe twice that many non-fatal shootings. So, yeah, they are not all reported by CNN, ABC, CBS, NBC, NY Times, WaPost, etc., because if they did there would be nothing on the news but shootings, and individually they are not of national interest. It has nothing to do with an agenda. When you have 66 shootings in one city in one weekend (Chicago), that tends to make national news. I’d be very surprised if it were only 2x the number of non-fatal shootings. Most firearms shootings are inflicted with handguns, and the vast majority of people shot with a handgun live. Last I’d heard, it was 5 out of 6 live, it may be up to 6 out of 7. Handguns just aren’t a very effective way of killing people, who don’t want to die. I.e., their efficacy is higher when used in suicide. (After a few seconds with CDC’s WISQARS data tool. [https://www.cdc.gov/injury/wisqars/index.html](https://www.cdc.gov/injury/wisqars/index.html)) For 2016, the CDC lists, for “Overall Firearm Gunshot Nonfatal Injuries and Rates per 100,000. 2016, United States, All Races, Both Sexes, All Ages. Disposition: All Cases:” **116,416** nonfatal injuries from a firearm. Not counting BB guns. (They have their own separate header in the database.) Out of a population of 323,127,513 Same database, but for firearms deaths for 2016, which includes accidents, suicides, crime, lawful self-defense, lawful homicide by a peace officer, etc… **38,658**. More than I would have thought, especially compared to firearms injuries. Very surprising, I would have thought the injuries would be more than 3x the deaths. I wonder how the stats look when suicide is removed? ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2018, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-gun-news-of-the-day/735490/1468 "2018-08-07T18:01:52Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > I’d be very surprised if it were only 2x the number of non-fatal shootings. My only point here was not to dramatize the statistics but rather to say that the press is not trying to suppress news of DGUs any more than they suppress news of OGUs. There is just not enough bandwidth or audience interest to report on individual cases. ---
**Author:** ![Orwell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/dfb087/32.png) [@Orwell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orwell)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2018, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-gun-news-of-the-day/735490/1469 "2018-08-07T18:38:46Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > My only point here was not to dramatize the statistics but rather to say that the press is not trying to suppress news of DGUs any more than they suppress news of OGUs. There is just not enough bandwidth or audience interest to report on individual cases. So you think that a guy who returns to a back-to-school event in a public park, a place packed with kids, and starts shooting into the crowd, is a routine individual case that goes below the fold on page 10? You think the fact that a person who is legally carrying stops him with no innocent loss of life, is of little audience interest, easily overlooked? Yeah, that’s what it is, I’m sure. No anti-gun agenda at play at all. ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2018, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-gun-news-of-the-day/735490/1470 "2018-09-18T02:53:23Z")
[Man goes behind counter to assault female employee. Female coworker has CCW permit.](https://www.tmj4.com/news/local-news/george-webb-attack-employee-was-reportedly-a-concealed-carry-holder) (with video) The man punches the first woman in the head/face and her coworker draws her weapon on him. He decides he would be better off going somewhere else. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2018, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-gun-news-of-the-day/735490/1471 "2018-09-18T13:41:19Z")
Seems like negative news to me. If they were so afraid for their life that they pulled a gun, why didn’t they shoot the guy? ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2018, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-gun-news-of-the-day/735490/1472 "2018-09-18T15:00:33Z")
The threat was sufficient in itself so it’s actually positive on two points. They were able to defend themselves and they didn’t have to shoot the man that looks like he weighed as much as both of them put together. Are you going to pretend you don’t believe that wouldn’t have had a much worse ending for the women if one of them wasn’t armed? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2018, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-gun-news-of-the-day/735490/1473 "2018-09-18T15:36:50Z")
I’m sure the ending would have been the same if the woman had a taser, or a large can of mace. ---
**Author:** ![Orwell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/dfb087/32.png) [@Orwell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orwell)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2018, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-gun-news-of-the-day/735490/1474 "2018-09-18T15:51:05Z")
She would have been entirely justified in shooting the SOB. But pulling the gun was enough to stop the attack, which is consistent with the fact that guns are most often used to stop crimes with no shots fired. The linked article doesn’t mention that the man was arrested, though the video is plenty clear enough to identify him. Good defensive gun use. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2018, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-gun-news-of-the-day/735490/1475 "2018-09-18T16:21:25Z")
> [@Orwell](#): > > […]guns are most often used to stop crimes with no shots fired. Where can I find the data on this? ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2018, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-gun-news-of-the-day/735490/1476 "2018-09-18T17:23:50Z")
> [@Orwell](#): > > The linked article doesn’t mention that the man was arrested, though the video is plenty clear enough to identify him. Good defensive gun use. I read in a different article where the man is a known drug dealer and the police were looking for him. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2018, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-gun-news-of-the-day/735490/1477 "2018-09-18T18:12:47Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > Where can I find the data on this? You’re not going to like it, and there are a LOT of holes in the methodology, but start with the research of John Lott on “Defensive Gun Uses.” (DGU for short) The term Defensive Gun Use is really elastic, and one may even not have a gun for an encounter to count as one. I’ve personally, when walking through a shitty area at night, placed my left hand behind my hip and acted like I was trying to gain a grip on a pistol carried in my waistband. The two guys who were really interested in me, by walking to intercept me, got really interested after I did that in returning to the convenience store they were loitering in front of. I didn’t have a gun. I tried really hard though to make it look like I had one, short of drawing. Does it count as a DGU? ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2018, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-gun-news-of-the-day/735490/1478 "2018-09-18T19:36:06Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > You’re not going to like it, and there are a LOT of holes in the methodology, but start with the research of John Lott on “Defensive Gun Uses.” (DGU for short) I have heard a lot of claims by both sides and I think there is a lot of fudging data to prove whatever you set out to prove. > [@](#): > > The two guys who were really interested in me, by walking to intercept me, got really interested after I did that in returning to the convenience store they were loitering in front of. I didn’t have a gun. I tried really hard though to make it look like I had one, short of drawing. Does it count as a DGU? There is not enough information in that anecdote but there are a lot of assumptions baked in there and I don’t think it is conclusively a case of “guns…used to stop crimes with no shots fired.” You may have defused a potential situation by bluffing, but there was no imminent crime (that is, if a policeman had seen their behavior there would have been no basis for arrest). And I could list a bunch of “what ifs” for that situation but it would not be helpful and I would just be guessing. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2018, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-gun-news-of-the-day/735490/1479 "2018-09-18T19:50:58Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > I have heard a lot of claims by both sides and I think there is a lot of fudging data to prove whatever you set out to prove. > > There is not enough information in that anecdote but there are a lot of assumptions baked in there and I don’t think it is conclusively a case of “guns…used to stop crimes with no shots fired.” You may have defused a potential situation by bluffing, but there was no imminent crime (that is, if a policeman had seen their behavior there would have been no basis for arrest). And I could list a bunch of “what ifs” for that situation but it would not be helpful and I would just be guessing. Sure a cop could have. How many cops do you know? The ones I know, if sufficiently motivated, could have turned it into a, “Hi! How’s it going? No, no, take your hands out of your pockets. Got any ID for me? That isn’t alcohol in those bags, is it?” And so on. It’s a basis for an interview, which based on what s/he finds out (mainly, do they already have warrants out or not, or easy contraband on them) may lead to PC for an arrest. I relate the anecdote, (And reiterate that, if they didn’t have any intent of meeting me, why get up off their ass and away from the convenience store to walk towards me? Bums are lazy, which is a reason they’re bums.), to point out that statistics that try to measure things like DGUs are going to be fuzzy as hell. And mainly will serve to preach to the converted. Lott’s DGUs that he used for his papers, AIUI, are a bit more firmly grounded than my anecdote. ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2018, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-gun-news-of-the-day/735490/1480 "2018-09-18T20:28:05Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > I’m sure the ending would have been the same if the woman had a taser, or a large can of mace. And I’m sure the ending would have been the same if she had had a broadsword or a mace. But she had a gun and the premise of the thread is positive gun news. A bad situation didn’t get worse because one of the victims was prepared to not be a victim. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-gun-news-of-the-day/735490.md?page=73) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-gun-news-of-the-day/735490.md?page=75)