# Positive masculinity and positive femininity? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 1, 2025, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-masculinity-and-positive-femininity/1023566 "2025-10-01T14:02:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 5\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2025, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-masculinity-and-positive-femininity/1023566/21 "2025-10-02T13:05:06Z")
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**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2025, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-masculinity-and-positive-femininity/1023566/22 "2025-10-02T13:30:03Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > I think the positive characteristics are positive for people of any gender; though they may be expressed in somewhat different styles. Yes and that’s pretty much my take. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2025, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-masculinity-and-positive-femininity/1023566/23 "2025-10-02T19:50:45Z")
Competence and virtue tend to be generic, flaws and errors tend to be idiosyncratic. There’s generally only a very limited number of ways to do something right and a nigh-infinite way of doing them wrong. So yeah, I doubt there’s much if anything different about positive masculinity and femininity, outside of maybe a few statistical leanings. Because they _can’t be_ too different, or they’d stop being “positive”. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2025, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-masculinity-and-positive-femininity/1023566/24 "2025-10-02T20:12:54Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > I’m not going to claim that such never happens but it does not seem to currently be the typical case: Wow! That article’s experiment as described does not test the likeability penalty. For example, many women will purposely not be assertive as to be more likable and if I’m reading the study description right, the conclusion would be, “See, she’s likeable so no likeability penalty.” It doesn’t help that the likeability survey they use is no longer available online. For those of you unfamiliar with the likeability penalty here it is in a nutshell. I’m going to give you an attribute like _outspoken_. Do you see that as a positive or negative attribute in men? Do you see that as a positive or negative attribute in women? Do you see that as a positive or negative attribute in manager? According to Sandberg’s research, there are a significant number of attributes seen as positive in men and managers but as a negative in women. So while you think a good manager is a person that demands high-quality work, you love it when it is a male manager pushing you to do better and challenging you but if it is a female manager she is a bitch who doesn’t know what she’s doing. Obviously this occurs in different fields at different rates but as an example, my wife is often called upon to be the peacemaker when a man creates a conflict with her. If she refuses (and of course the man would never compromise) then **she** is the one that is difficult to work with. If it has to be mediated, she is “demanding” while he is “letting his needs be known”. For those that claim, “Nah that’s not a thing.” then as we found out in the microaggressions thread many people (yes women do this to other women too) are not conscious that they are doing it. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2025, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-masculinity-and-positive-femininity/1023566/25 "2025-10-04T00:30:48Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > For those of you unfamiliar with the likeability penalty here it is in a nutshell. I’m going to give you an attribute like _outspoken_. Do you see that as a positive or negative attribute in men? Do you see that as a positive or negative attribute in women? Do you see that as a positive or negative attribute in manager? According to Sandberg’s research, there are a significant number of attributes seen as positive in men and managers but as a negative in women. So while you think a good manager is a person that demands high-quality work, you love it when it is a male manager pushing you to do better and challenging you but if it is a female manager she is a bitch who doesn’t know what she’s doing. Well…I’ve found that with many of the female managers I’ve had she was a “bitch who didn’t know what she was doing”. And they would often overcompensate by being excessively loud, shrill and pushy. I’ve seen it in men too. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-masculinity-and-positive-femininity/1023566.md?page=1)