# Positive portrayals of atheism in Hollywood **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 28, 2011, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-portrayals-of-atheism-in-hollywood/569292 "2011-01-28T13:17:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-portrayals-of-atheism-in-hollywood/569292/21 "2011-01-28T16:51:56Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > …“Nacho Libre” starring Jack Black (Mexican monk turned Luchador). His tag team partner is an atheist (I don’t believe in God. I believe in science."). It’s never an issue and I don’t recall it ever being shown up by Nacho’s faith. Nacho baptizes Esqueleto, but I don’t think that counts. 😛 But seriously, I thought the whole point at the end with Nacho flying like an eagle was because he was finally fighting for a just cause (rather than simply fame and glory) and so God helped him (it wasn’t the eagle eggs - they had been shown not to work). ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-portrayals-of-atheism-in-hollywood/569292/22 "2011-01-28T16:52:57Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I can’t think of a movie that really shows critical thinking being celebrated. Hollywood atheists are almost aways “angry at God,” or arrogant, intellectual, Jack Chick style, strawman skeptics who will get proven wrong about the Devil or God’s Purpose in the end. > > Jodie Foster was an atheist in _Contact_, but they watered it by pairing her with a theist, preacher boyfriend and writing some tepid, toothless debates between the two that resolved nothing. > > It’s not a movie, but the TV show, _House_ does have an atheist protagonist who consistently challenges and refutes woo. I think Alison Cameron on _House_ is a more positive depiction of an atheist than the title character him. She is much less of an asshole than he, and when she, Foreman, and Chase were fellows together, she (a) came out quite well in an argument about faith with Foreman, and (b) was demonstratably more ethical than Foreman. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-portrayals-of-atheism-in-hollywood/569292/23 "2011-01-28T16:53:31Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > Third, Jesus Christ appears in several scenes of that movie (the Nativity and the Sermon on the Mount), with nothing opposing the conventional Christian view that he was divine. Also the “shekel for an old ex-leper?” scene (he doesn’t appear, but he’s referenced as having divine powers). ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-portrayals-of-atheism-in-hollywood/569292/24 "2011-01-28T16:57:02Z")
In the TV show Bones the title character is a hardline atheist, though she is very respectful of her partner’s religious conviction. (He’s a pretty devout Catholic.) She never gets and is never portrayed as deserving any kind of comeuppance. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-portrayals-of-atheism-in-hollywood/569292/25 "2011-01-28T16:57:18Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > The Invention of Lying might fit the bill.. “Might”?? Invention of Lying is a love letter to atheism. On TV, Bones is also adamantly atheist. I think there are more positive portrayals of atheists on TV than there are of believers. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-portrayals-of-atheism-in-hollywood/569292/26 "2011-01-28T16:58:05Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > Nacho baptizes Esqueleto, but I don’t think that counts. 😛 > > But seriously, I thought the whole point at the end with Nacho flying like an eagle was because he was finally fighting for a just cause (rather than simply fame and glory) and so God helped him (it wasn’t the eagle eggs - they had been shown not to work). …I MAY… MAY… have fallen aspleep by that point. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-portrayals-of-atheism-in-hollywood/569292/27 "2011-01-28T17:03:51Z")
There was a great miniseries in the 1970s (available on DVD but a very cheaply made one) called _The Awakening Land_ that was the first portrayal I remember seeing of an atheist. It’s a historical miniseries set ca. 1790s-1820 and it’s leaps and bounds above most historical miniseries in terms of accuracy and “the feel” of the era. It’s based on a trilogy of novels (_The Trees_, _The Fields_, and _The Town_) by Conrad Richter, all of which won awards and the last of which won the Pulitzer. Anyway, it’s about the romance and marriage of an unlikely pair: Sayward (pronounced ‘Saird’) Luckett- played by Elizabeth Montgomery from teens to middle age- an illiterate backwoods woman raised pillar to post by her frontiersman father- and Portius Wheeler- a “Bay State” lawyer of impeccable breeding and education who is living in self imposed exile on the Ohio frontier. Portius is a ‘free thinker’ and it makes it clear he doubts the existence of God. He’s infuriated at one point when he’s passed over for a judgeship because of his lack of religion and instead it’s given to a devoutly Christian slave owner. * * * Piers Morgan asked [Ricky Gervais about his atheism](http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/01/21/ricky-gervais-says-atheism-shouldnt-offend/). ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-portrayals-of-atheism-in-hollywood/569292/28 "2011-01-28T17:10:14Z")
I don’t know if I’d call it a “positive portrayal of atheism” but there are a few teen comedies that have Christian nutbags who turn out to be bad guys. Mandy Moore’s character in _Saved_ Amanda Bynes’ character in _Easy A_ Denise Richard’s character in _Drop Dead Gorgeous_ and I think Anthony Rapp’s asshole character in _Road Trip_ had some type of ‘Jesus Rules’ t-shirt on. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-portrayals-of-atheism-in-hollywood/569292/29 "2011-01-28T17:17:09Z")
While his lack of faith isn’t addressed specifically in the movie (it is in the book), there are plenty of hints that Rhett Butler is at very least very skeptical about religion, and he certainly sees the hypocrisy in it. He says of the Confederate cause “I believe in Rhett Butler, he’s the only cause I care about”, which extends to his religion as well. The closest he comes to addressing religion directly is when Scarlett becomes terrified she’s going to hell after her second husband dies and he tells her "I’m afraid of dying and going to hell. RHETT You look pretty healthy, and maybe there isn’t any hell. SCARLETT Oh, there is. I know there is. I was raised on it. RHETT Well, far be it from me to question the teachings of childhood. Tell me what you’ve done that hell yawns before you. The way he says it it’s clear he’s patronizing her as if she expressed a belief in the Tooth Fairy. In the same scene he gives her a sort of “get the hell over it” comment- RHETT You’re like the thief who isn’t the least bit sorry he stole…but he’s terribly, terribly sorry he’s going to jail. Which can be argued to show his disgust with the hypocrisy of religious people. Rhett, a total pragmatist, doesn’t think a mite’s ass less of Scarlett for having married Frank and thinks it’s ridiculous she’s worrying over a childish boogie man for doing what she had to do at the time. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-portrayals-of-atheism-in-hollywood/569292/30 "2011-01-28T17:20:57Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I don’t remember any atheism in that movie. “Liberal” is not synonomous with “atheist,” you know. Most liberals are religious. Snore… oh, you finished with the preaching? My turn? You may npt remember Joan Allen’s atheism, but it was there nonetheless. Joan Allen is not only an atheist, she proudly proclaims it before the Congressional commitee that’s holding hearings on whether to approve her. Her pompous speech says, “I’m an athest. However, that doesn’t mean I don’t have beliefs. I DO believe in the United States Constitution.” ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-portrayals-of-atheism-in-hollywood/569292/31 "2011-01-28T17:23:43Z")
I just said I didn’t remember it, not that it wasn’t there. If it was there, it was of minimal significance, and characterizing atheism as “liberal” is still off base. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-portrayals-of-atheism-in-hollywood/569292/32 "2011-01-28T17:30:11Z")
The Best Man (1964). Hotly contested presidential convention, with Henry Fonda vs Cliff Robertson. Fonda is principled, reasonable, compassionate, and a non-believer (fairly unconventional for the time period). Robertson is a conniving sleazeball, and religious. Fonda has the opportunity to release the fact that Robertson had a same-sex liaison in his past. He chooses to bury it and give the nomination to a 3rd person. Good movie. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-portrayals-of-atheism-in-hollywood/569292/33 "2011-01-28T17:32:15Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > …Jodie Foster was an atheist in _Contact_, but they watered it by pairing her with a theist, preacher boyfriend and writing some tepid, toothless debates between the two that resolved nothing… IIRC they also threw in some event in her past that “made her lose faith” which wasn’t in the book. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-portrayals-of-atheism-in-hollywood/569292/34 "2011-01-28T17:40:20Z")
Quoth **Diogenes** : > [@](#): > > Jodie Foster was an atheist in Contact, but they watered it by pairing her with a theist, preacher boyfriend and writing some tepid, toothless debates between the two that resolved nothing. As opposed to all those heated, fanged debates around here that resolve everything? Of _course_ the debate never gets resolved; it’s inherently unresolvable. The really interesting thing about _Contact_ is that the book (written by outspoken atheist Carl Sagan) ends with an incontrovertible proof of the existence of God, that even a skeptic like Arroway is forced to accept… And that’s left out of the movie. So if anything, the movie made the atheist message even stronger, by omission. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-portrayals-of-atheism-in-hollywood/569292/35 "2011-01-28T17:42:36Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > First, that’s not really “Hollywood”. Second, who is portrayed as an atheist in that movie? Most of the characters would have been at least nominal adherents of either Judaism or of the Roman religion: I don’t remember any saying anything about not believing in any gods. Third, Jesus Christ appears in several scenes of that movie (the Nativity and the Sermon on the Mount), with nothing opposing the conventional Christian view that he was divine. I’ll have to remember not to post is the Cafe Society snake pit until I’ve had my coffee. Shit. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-portrayals-of-atheism-in-hollywood/569292/36 "2011-01-28T17:43:40Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Quoth **Diogenes** :As opposed to all those heated, fanged debates around here that resolve everything? Of _course_ the debate never gets resolved; it’s inherently unresolvable. Well, “resolved” was the wrong wrd to choose, but what I meant was that the debates in the movie were shallow and insubstantial and not really meaty or challenging. ---
**Author:** ![shiftless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9c0ed/32.png) [@shiftless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shiftless)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-portrayals-of-atheism-in-hollywood/569292/37 "2011-01-28T17:56:08Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Quoth **Diogenes** :As opposed to all those heated, fanged debates around here that resolve everything? Of _course_ the debate never gets resolved; it’s inherently unresolvable. > > The really interesting thing about _Contact_ is that the book (written by outspoken atheist Carl Sagan) ends with an incontrovertible proof of the existence of God, that even a skeptic like Arroway is forced to accept… And that’s left out of the movie. So if anything, the movie made the atheist message even stronger, by omission. I came away from _Contact_ with the feeling that the aliens were somehow the new gods. All those mysterious alien powers create a new spiritual awakening of some sort in Jody Foster. The whole religion/science debate they had built up throughout the movie is dropped for some vague spiritual mumbo-jumbo. Spiritual mumbo-jumbo is a mainstay of most SciFi but it was very disappointing in this movie that pretended it was going in another direction. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-portrayals-of-atheism-in-hollywood/569292/38 "2011-01-28T18:41:30Z")
> [@shiftless](#): > > I came away from _Contact_ with the feeling that the aliens were somehow the new gods. All those mysterious alien powers create a new spiritual awakening of some sort in Jody Foster. The whole religion/science debate they had built up throughout the movie is dropped for some vague spiritual mumbo-jumbo. Spiritual mumbo-jumbo is a mainstay of most SciFi but it was very disappointing in this movie that pretended it was going in another direction. She came away realizing an experience can be completely real and life changing but also completely unprovable and unfalsifiable. Earlier her boyfriend (who is COMPLETELY different in the book- for one thing he’s not her boyfriend and for another he’s much older and a former carnie) foreshadowed this with “Did you love your father? Prove it.” While I’m sure Sagan thought Jung was as loopy as most people do when it came to some of his more mystical and out-there theories, he did like the Jungian term [technological angels](http://http://socyberty.com/paranormal/angels-or-outer-space-visitors/)(one of the original “Band name!” opps that’s yet to be used). The descriptions of people who claim to have been abducted by aliens (helplessness, hovering hazy life forms, being fondled, etc.) were told in almost exactly the same details at least as far back as the Middle Ages but then they were attributed to abduction by angels or demons (depending on the experience), but with the advent of movies and pulp fiction sci-fi novels and the like they became space aliens, an evolution that Jung referred to as technological angels as technology was becoming more important than mythology and religion.\* \*I’ve had such experiences (except for the sexual parts, unfortunately) and even at my most New Agey never credited them to anything beyond extremely vivid dreams. This turns out to be about half right. It’s a fascinating phenomenon though. The sensation is most likely caused by sleep paralysis (which if you’ve never experienced it is miserable- your body is as helpless as an arm that’s asleep when you wake up after sleeping on it all night) and its combined with dreaming- essentially you’re not quite awake and not quite asleep and you’re sort of aware of both the dream world and the real world so they merge in your perceptions. While all people will probably experience something like this at some point, there are numerous things ranging from neurological oddities to medicinal side effects that cause some people to experience it more often or more memorably than others; add to this that we’re all a bit prone to suggestion when memories are concerned and for many people who read about the alien abductions even if they didn’t see “the Grays” or the big headed aliens or whatever during the waking-dream they can- even if they’re very intelligent and not weak willed- suddenly “remember” having seen them. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-portrayals-of-atheism-in-hollywood/569292/39 "2011-01-28T19:04:46Z")
Slightly off topic, but the _Star Wars_ movies reveal what was initially presented as a religious phenomenon (the Force) to have a purely evolutionary basis. Dr. House is an atheist. (And an a–hole. Coincidence…?) Sue Sylvester (Glee) is an atheist. (Also an a–hole. Hmmm…) Brian Griffin is an atheist (as is Seth MacFarlane), but he’s a dog and presumably has no soul anyway. Lisa Simpson is a Buddhist, which I think Hollywood sort of equates with mild atheism. Mrs. Garrison on South Park converted from evangelical Christianity to atheism (in an episode that eventually caused Richard Dawkins to remark, “I’m buggered if I like being portrayed as a cartoon character buggering a bald transvestite”). (Read all of these with a 😉 or a 🆒 as needed, of course). ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-portrayals-of-atheism-in-hollywood/569292/40 "2011-01-28T19:19:53Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The really interesting thing about _Contact_ is that the book (written by outspoken atheist Carl Sagan) ends with an incontrovertible proof of the existence of God, that even a skeptic like Arroway is forced to accept… And that’s left out of the movie. So if anything, the movie made the atheist message even stronger, by omission. On the other hand, that means they did shy away from subverting the "hardcore skeptic never actually believes when there is firm evidence, but rather persists in disbelief no matter the odds " trope. At least w/r/t God. Didn’t see the movie or read the book. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-portrayals-of-atheism-in-hollywood/569292.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-portrayals-of-atheism-in-hollywood/569292.md?page=3)