# Positive Ways to Express Atheism **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 14, 2002, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-ways-to-express-atheism/108971 "2002-05-14T04:52:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Netbrian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71e660/32.png) [@Netbrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Netbrian)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2002, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-ways-to-express-atheism/108971/1 "2002-05-14T04:52:18Z")
At this point in time, I finally admitted to myself and others of my actual religious beliefs. Although everyone that matters has been quite supporting, I’m beginning to wonder if it is enough. Could people here help me come up with ways to demonstrate that Atheism itself can be a positive thing? I’m not saying that any other faith is negative, or that Atheism is superior, I simply would like help in coming up with ways to express my Atheism in a positive manner that doesn’t attack anyone else… Thank you! ---
**Author:** ![kniz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c37758/32.png) [@kniz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kniz)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2002, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-ways-to-express-atheism/108971/2 "2002-05-14T05:14:18Z")
Who do you want to express it to and for what purpose? If you aren’t trying to convert other people why do you need to mention it unless they bring up their beliefs. What I’m trying to say is right now you sound like a Christian that needs to “testify.” ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2002, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-ways-to-express-atheism/108971/3 "2002-05-14T05:17:48Z")
I’ll ditto **kniz** ’s question. What do you mean by express it? I myself am an athiest and find the issue rarely coming up in the religious Unitarian Universalist community to which I belong. Do you mean defending/justifying your belief (or lack thereof, or something) to other people? ---
**Author:** ![Netbrian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71e660/32.png) [@Netbrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Netbrian)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2002, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-ways-to-express-atheism/108971/4 "2002-05-14T05:23:36Z")
Okay, I’ll try and clarify things a bit. What I’m trying to do more than anything else, is express it. And try to do my best to fight the misconception that we are all unethical, immoral, etc. At this point, simply trying to do the right things and being as good as possible hasn’t worked, it’s only labelled me as an exception. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2002, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-ways-to-express-atheism/108971/5 "2002-05-14T05:28:31Z")
What do you do when the discussion turns to religion and everyone else in the group is treating the subject as if Christianity is a foregone conclusion? Do you keep quiet and let them assume that you agree with them? Do you nod at the right places so as not to appear rude? Do you speak up and give your honest opinion, but try to do it as inoffensive as possible so as to not ruffle feathers? Or do you state your opinion as enthusiastically as they state theirs? ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2002, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-ways-to-express-atheism/108971/6 "2002-05-14T05:30:05Z")
Sorry if I’m just being dense, but it is just about 1:30 in the morning over here 🙂 I don’t get that often from people (the whole unethical immoral thing). Are you saying that you want to express your athiesm to people who question your morality? Well, the wrong thing to say to them would be, “well, look at all the immoral stuff done in the name og God and Jesus.” Never ever have the faithful had the corner on morality, even the morality they espouse. That topic of conversation rarely goes over well at dinner parties with Christians though. I guess one thing to say is just that you can live with morals without believing in Christ. There are, in fact, billions of people who do just that each day. If someone can’t understand that, then I can’t think of anything else that would truly work. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2002, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-ways-to-express-atheism/108971/7 "2002-05-14T14:34:46Z")
I suggest you look into Humanism. There are several websites, including the American Humanists Association, and the Council for Secular Humanism. The AHA principles expressly disavow belief in the supernatural. But, they say much more. Personally, I find it more satisfying to define myself (either to myself or tho others) positively in terms of what I believe in, instead of negatively in terms of someone else’s beliefs that I reject. Further, IMO, there is a significant distinction between someone who is a Humanist, and someone who considers themselves “humanistic.” Whether or not you decide to consider yourself a Humanist, you may encounter some materials that help you in your quest. Personally, I do not believe in a god or any other supernatural forces or entities. I firmly believe that the natural world/universe and this present liife is all that there is - and that they are enough. I consider Humanism a philosophy for people who love life. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2002, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-ways-to-express-atheism/108971/8 "2002-05-14T15:35:09Z")
I think you’re doing well just to be considerate enough to want to express it positively. As long as you don’t say to believers in God/s, “do you also believe in the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy?” you’re doing fine. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Great\_Unwashed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_great_unwashed/32/4791_2.png) [@The\_Great\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Great_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2002, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-ways-to-express-atheism/108971/9 "2002-05-14T16:33:31Z")
Early in this thread some questioned as to why NB might need to “express” his beliefs, I’m sure I felt a hint of “your not getting all evangelical on us are you?” Like this would be self-contradictory. But why not? Evangelical Christians (et al) exert a pressure upon the views of society, this is a pressure that cannot be countered with the agnostic “ho-hum, whatever, what would I know?”, it is of fundamental importance that the secular among us deliver, with a fervour and a pointedness, effective and cogent arguments to wholly undermine the superstitionalist culturally accepted delusion that is the happy fiction called theism. My favourite quote: > [@](#): > > \*\* > “I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.” > > - Stephen Roberts > \*\* You go tell 'em NB, and don’t forget to mention Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny or the Tooth Fairy, theistic belief has no more credibility than belief in any of these. Someone did mention that (I paraphrase) you should be careful to avoid demanding that the religious justify the evil that has been perpetrated in god’s name. What rot! > [@](#): > > \*\* > “Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you’d have good people doing good things and bad people doing bad things, but for good people to do bad things, it takes religion.” > > - Steven Weinberg - Nobel Laureate > \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2002, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-ways-to-express-atheism/108971/10 "2002-05-14T22:57:56Z")
greatly oversimplifing the matter, when questioned, i reply, “if you have to ask, you wouldn’t understand.” simplicity speaks volumes. ---
**Author:** ![Podkayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Podkayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Podkayne)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2002, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-ways-to-express-atheism/108971/11 "2002-05-14T23:21:13Z")
I would think that if **Netbrian** is consorting with people who operate under the _assumption_ that athiests are immoral and unethical, then he’s not going to get very far using **The Great Unwashed’s** methods. If he attacks their religion, the air will ring with the sounds of minds slamming shut, and he will have cemented their beliefs that atheists as nasty little back-biters. You’re already doing the best, most positive thing you can, **Brian**. You’re providing them with a living, breathing example of an undepraved atheist. 🙂 Beyond that, you might want to brush up on the logical underpinnings of some secular systems of ethics and morality. Humanism, as **Dinsdale** suggests, is a good place to start. Many people assume that morality comes from God, so if you reject God, you automatically reject morality. If you can show them that there are logical reasons to be a good person, they might come to understand that most atheists are decent folks. ---
**Author:** ![Already\_in\_Use](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a9adbd/32.png) [@Already\_in\_Use](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Already_in_Use)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2002, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-ways-to-express-atheism/108971/12 "2002-05-15T03:01:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Eonwe \* > **… > Well, the wrong thing to say to them would be, "well, look at all the immoral stuff done in the name _og_ God and Jesus."** (my italics) All I can say is… whoa, this is getting freaky. ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2002, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-ways-to-express-atheism/108971/13 "2002-05-15T03:04:39Z")
That Roberts quote is pretty cool. ---
**Author:** ![Urban\_Ranger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Urban\_Ranger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urban_Ranger)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2002, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-ways-to-express-atheism/108971/14 "2002-05-15T05:00:18Z")
If you want to express yourself in a positive light, you can do much worse than being a secular humanist or a freethinker. You can of course combine the two to become a freethinking secular humanist 😉 Here’s another interesting quote I found: > [@](#): > > If it were proved to you that there is no God, which atrocity would you commit first, and why? ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Head](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/97f17d/32.png) [@Tom\_Head](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Head)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2002, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-ways-to-express-atheism/108971/15 "2002-05-15T05:10:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Netbrian \* > **At this point in time, I finally admitted to myself and others of my actual religious beliefs. Although everyone that matters has been quite supporting, I’m beginning to wonder if it is enough. Could people here help me come up with ways to demonstrate that Atheism itself can be a positive thing? I’m not saying that any other faith is negative, or that Atheism is superior, I simply would like help in coming up with ways to express my Atheism in a positive manner that doesn’t attack anyone else…** My all-time favorite description of non-theism would have to be Arthur C. Clarke’s: “I don’t believe in God, but I don’t disbelieve in her either.” Another wonderful quote, though I’ve long ago forgotten the source: “I believe the meaning of life is to give life meaning.” You would probably find this site interesting as well: [http://www.positive-atheism.org](http://www.positive-atheism.org) Cheers, ---
**Author:** ![The\_Great\_Unwashed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_great_unwashed/32/4791_2.png) [@The\_Great\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Great_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2002, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-ways-to-express-atheism/108971/16 "2002-05-15T10:14:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Podkayne \* > \*\*I would think that if **Netbrian** is consorting with people who operate under the _assumption_ that athiests are immoral and unethical, then he’s not going to get very far using **The Great Unwashed’s** methods. If he attacks their religion, the air will ring with the sounds of minds slamming shut, and he will have cemented their beliefs that atheists as nasty little back-biters. > \*\* Er! What are you talking about? What back-biting? Anyway, the problem is of course that the theistic mind is already shut. That is in fact what “faith” is. And in your post you admit as much “people who operate under the _assumption_ that athiests are immoral and unethical”. You think that Nb should address that first? How? By avowing that he is moral and ethical? Would it not be better just to behave morally and ethically and hope that they just, sort of, you know, notice? IMHO what should be avoided at all costs is to allow it to be assumed that atheism is “just another faith” position, it isn’t – believing in Santa Claus is a faith position, NOT believing is NOT a faith position. This asymmetry confuses some people, and many a soul has been lost to the dark side (as I like to call them) as a result. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Elvis\_Rojo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@El\_Elvis\_Rojo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Elvis_Rojo)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2002, 10:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-ways-to-express-atheism/108971/17 "2002-05-15T10:18:27Z")
How do you show people you’re ethical and nice and that Atheists are good people? By being a moral, ethical, and good person. Let your actions demonstrate how/who you are. Don’t worry about banners or car designs. Just be a good person. ---
**Author:** ![HubZilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ccd318/32.png) [@HubZilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HubZilla)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2002, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-ways-to-express-atheism/108971/18 "2002-05-15T10:31:50Z")
Atheists need not be negative or combative. We hear a claim “there is a god”. We say, “Fine, show me” ---
**Author:** ![The\_Great\_Unwashed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_great_unwashed/32/4791_2.png) [@The\_Great\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Great_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2002, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-ways-to-express-atheism/108971/19 "2002-05-15T13:05:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by HubZilla \* > \*\*Atheists need not be negative or combative. > > We hear a claim “there is a god”. We say, “Fine, show me” \*\* Maybe in an “ideal” world this would work, but I just figure you’ll get yourself invited to a LOT of evangelical meetings this way, and don’t think that when you’re there you’ll have the opportunity “to dialogue”. For the record, I don’t see my beliefs nor my arguments as being “negative”, in fact, on the contrary, I’m a “good news” evangelical atheist – “Never mind the angst, feel the liberation!” And I’m not at all sure what you mean by combative – there are some who would claim your “Fine, show me” as being aggressive. ---
**Author:** ![Podkayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Podkayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Podkayne)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2002, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-ways-to-express-atheism/108971/20 "2002-05-15T15:53:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Great Unwashed \* > Anyway, the problem is of course that the theistic mind is already shut. That is in fact what “faith” is. I disagree; I think that the problem is overgeneralization–something that we atheists sometimes find ourselves doing, as well. _subtle cough_ > [@](#): > > And in your post you admit as much “people who operate under the _assumption_ that athiests are immoral and unethical”. You think that Nb should address that first? How? I believe that I answered that in my post: by attacking, not the _person_, not their _religion_, but their _faulty assumption_. If, as you claim, all theists are all indeed close-minded, **Netbrian** will not profit by haranguing them about the evils of religion–indeed, he would do well to avoid the subject entirely, rather than antagonize them. After all, since their minds are closed, they will never be presuaded to question their assumptions about atheists by logical argument–and certainly not by attacks and insults. Right? If, on the other hand, among the theists **Netbrain** knows, there are some reasonable people who might be willing to consider a new point of view, nothing will drive them away quicker than a polemic on how Jesus Christ, Who died on the Cross for their Sins, is equivalent to the Easter Bunny. If he wants to convince such a person that atheism can be a positive thing, he’d better be respectful and patient. If he isn’t, at best they’ll tune him out, and at worst, they will find that their suspicions are confirmed, that atheists are indeed rude, arrogant jerks who can only be saved by the Grace of Our Lord Jesus Christ. [Insert the cliche about flies, honey, and vinegar here.] [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/positive-ways-to-express-atheism/108971.md?page=2)