# Possessive form of Jones. **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 9, 2017, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possessive-form-of-jones/786233 "2017-05-09T23:00:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2017, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possessive-form-of-jones/786233/41 "2017-05-10T18:48:03Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Hey, do not pin this overly-pedantic bullshit on me. As far as I am concerned, “-s’s” is ugly and should _never_ be used. I am a full-on opponent of the trailing s. Ok, but I was not just questioning what you said as a prescription, I was doubting it as an empirical claim. Do you think that (some, most?) other people do add the second s in writing, while not pronouncing it in speech? ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2017, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possessive-form-of-jones/786233/42 "2017-05-10T18:51:56Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Well, you’re wrong about that. Because I for one am saying that Homer is correct to pronounce it with two distinct “S” sounds. Where he sometimes goes wrong is by adding an extra “E” sound — FlanderEses. Otherwise Homer has the genitive form absolutely correct. Yup, I got that. Both you and a world-famous cartoon character think that’s a stylish genitive. Who am I to disagree? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2017, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possessive-form-of-jones/786233/43 "2017-05-10T20:01:10Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Hey, do not pin this overly-pedantic bullshit on me. As far as I am concerned, “-s’s” is ugly and should _never_ be used. I am a full-on opponent of the trailing s. I could see arguments either way. It just seems really weird to me both in terms of consistency and pronunciation. Would you really say the names in phrases like “Gus’ house” and “Jess’ car” with only one syllable? While I do like aesthetics, it just seems to me to be more consistent and follows spoken language more closely to write “Gus’s house” and “Jess’s car” (unless, of course, you do only say the name with one syllable.) ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2017, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possessive-form-of-jones/786233/44 "2017-05-10T20:07:17Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Ok, but I was not just questioning what you said as a prescription, I was doubting it as an empirical claim. Do you think that (some, most?) other people do add the second s in writing, while not pronouncing it in speech? This mystifies me too. If you (any you) are going to spell it **Jones’s** it needs to be said with two s or z sounds with (usually) a schwa between them. If you’re going to spell it **Jones’** it needs to be said with one s or z sound. Anyone who propounds a prescriptive or descriptive “rule” decoupling those two is IMO off in left field. For sure even idealized English falls very far short of being straightforward to transcribe to writing from heard speech. But IMO this goes goes over the edge. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2017, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possessive-form-of-jones/786233/45 "2017-05-10T20:11:25Z")
I think pronunciation patterns are highly variable, even to the extent that there may be no actual regional norms. People say what they say, and whether you hear “Gus house” or “Guses house”, you will parse it either way. Aesthetically, I find the “-s’s” just not pleasing at all. But that is just me. If the style guides say to use it, that is what style guide adherents and editors will use. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2017, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possessive-form-of-jones/786233/46 "2017-05-10T20:34:29Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > But I’m puzzled why you would conclude that people do (or should) still _write_ it that way, to preserve an invented rule that every singular noun _must_ add a second “s” in the genitive; and then make things whole only by imposing an irregular and unexpected _pronunciation_ on that spelling. I don’t say that people should add a second “s”. To the contrary, I said that leaving it off is completely acceptable - unless you are bound to a style guide that says otherwise. You do what the style guide says, or a copyeditor corrects it for you. That’s what style guide means. The Dope has no style guide, so people are free to use their preferred style here. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2017, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possessive-form-of-jones/786233/47 "2017-05-10T20:49:50Z")
The question is not limited to names, right? “The boss’s desk.” “For goodness’ [goodness’s?] sake.” … ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2017, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possessive-form-of-jones/786233/48 "2017-05-10T21:34:24Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > The question is not limited to names, right? “The boss’s desk.” “For goodness’ [goodness’s?] sake.” > > … Actually, pretty much all the style guides agree on apostrophe-s after a common noun ending in “s” that is singular. But there are a couple oddball exceptions. One is set phrases like “goodness’ sake” and even “conscience’ sake” (AP Style at least has that exception) and AP style also has the exception that if a word ends in double-“s” and is put in the possessive and the following word starts with “s,” then just use the bare apostrophe. So, “actress’s role,” but “actress’ salary.” ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2017, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possessive-form-of-jones/786233/49 "2017-05-10T21:40:32Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > I think pronunciation patterns are highly variable, even to the extent that there may be no actual regional norms. People say what they say, and whether you hear “Gus house” or “Guses house”, you will parse it either way. Aesthetically, I find the “-s’s” just not pleasing at all. But that is just me. If the style guides say to use it, that is what style guide adherents and editors will use. Actually, come to think of it, there are places where I would not say the second syllabic sibilant. While I do say “Jesus’s disciples” with three syllables for “Jesus’s,” I find myself saying “Socrates’ student” and “Achilles’ last stand” without the extra syllable at the end. Probably because they already sound like possessives to my ear, while the name “Jesus” does not. “Gus’s” and “Jess’s” also gets two syllables. “Jones” I think can go either way for me. I’ll typically say it with two syllables, otherwise, it sounds like “Joan’s” instead of “Jones’s.” ---
**Author:** ![zweisamkeit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zweisamkeit/32/4360_2.png) [@zweisamkeit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zweisamkeit)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2017, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possessive-form-of-jones/786233/50 "2017-05-11T20:15:51Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Well, you’re wrong about that. Because I for one am saying that Homer is correct to pronounce it with two distinct “S” sounds. Where he sometimes goes wrong is by adding an extra “E” sound — FlanderEses. Otherwise Homer has the genitive form absolutely correct. I say it this way, too. For “Barry Jones’(s) car”, I’d pronounce it as “jones-ez”, not just “jones”. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2017, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possessive-form-of-jones/786233/51 "2017-05-11T21:22:48Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > This mystifies me too. > > If you (any you) are going to spell it **Jones’s** it needs to be said with two s or z sounds with (usually) a schwa between them. If you’re going to spell it **Jones’** it needs to be said with one s or z sound. > Anyone who propounds a prescriptive or descriptive “rule” decoupling those two is IMO off in left field. For sure even idealized English falls very far short of being straightforward to transcribe to writing from heard speech. But IMO this goes goes over the edge. “What can’t be coded can be decorded if an ear aye sieze what no eye ere grieved for. ” ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2017, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possessive-form-of-jones/786233/52 "2017-05-11T21:54:02Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > “What can’t be coded can be decorded if an ear aye sieze what no eye ere grieved for. ” Well, it’s no surprise that you’re a fan of incomprehensible writers, Leo. I never really believed that you were named after the “Producers” character.🙂 ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2017, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possessive-form-of-jones/786233/53 "2017-05-14T03:59:31Z")
I was taught\* (by an author of a textbook on grammar) to write/say Jones’s. But I agree it can get awkward, so I just structure sentences so I don’t have to sound like a bumblebee with Tourette’s. Instead of “I’m stopping by Ned Flanders’s house to pick him up.”… “I’m picking up Ned at his house.” \*that was high school, so I think I’ve avoided the S-apostrophe-S for forty years now. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2017, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possessive-form-of-jones/786233/54 "2017-05-14T04:49:44Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > If you’re going to spell it **Jones’** it needs to be said with one s or z sound. Thing is, regardless of how you personally say it, style guides require you to do it one way or the other. I say “Jones’s” with the second syllable. If I’m writing for any publication that requires AP Style, I have to spell it “Jones’.” Similarly, if I’m reading anything where it’s spelled “Jones’” I sure as heck am saying it “Jones’s,” otherwise, it doesn’t sound like a possessive to me (or, rather, it sounds like the possessive of Joan.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possessive-form-of-jones/786233.md?page=2)