# Possibility of martial law? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 13, 2020, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possibility-of-martial-law/849441 "2020-03-13T21:21:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2020, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possibility-of-martial-law/849441/41 "2020-03-16T20:31:43Z")
> [@robby](#): > > You’re assuming that the Republicans would follow the rules. I don’t have any confidence that they would, especially regarding a law that most Americans are unaware of. > > The Democrats would appeal to the courts, of course, but how has that worked out for them so far? They can’t even get a subpoena enforced or copies of Trump’s tax returns, even though the law clearly provides for these. Even violations of the Constitution (such as the Emoluments clause) have been allowed to continue, and the courts have provided no relief there either. > > Our much-vaunted checks and balances seem to have disappeared some time ago. Well, then things would get interesting, because then the Democrats would ignore Trump and listen to Pelosi, and Republicans would do the opposite. So what would the actual machinery of government, the ones who make things happen, do? For Trump to retain authority, if those people and departments don’t decide unilaterally to go with one side over the other, the courts would have to affirmatively say that Trump is still president. Otherwise, why should the Joint Chiefs continue to listen to Trump? The FBI and CIA? They would hardly be intimidated by physical threats, since they’re the ones usually wielding it, ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2020, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possibility-of-martial-law/849441/42 "2020-03-16T21:23:23Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > For anyone concerned about Republicans somehow suspending election, realize that by the Presidential Succession Act that Pelosi would become president on inauguration day. So, that won’t happen. Trump/Pence ends on January 20, 2021 if they have not been elected. The idea that Republicans would go so far as to suspend elections, yet, simultaneously, abide by the law so much that they would allow Pelosi to take office, is contradictory. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2020, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possibility-of-martial-law/849441/43 "2020-03-16T22:16:45Z")
I have a wife. I’m already under marital law! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2020, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possibility-of-martial-law/849441/44 "2020-03-16T22:26:58Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > I have a wife. I’m already under marital law! 😛 Thank you! That’s what I see every time I look at that subject line. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2020, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possibility-of-martial-law/849441/45 "2020-03-16T23:32:40Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Thank you! That’s what I see every time I look at that subject line. 🙂 _ **bow** _😃 ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2020, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possibility-of-martial-law/849441/46 "2020-03-17T06:15:23Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > For anyone concerned about Republicans somehow suspending election, realize that by the Presidential Succession Act that Pelosi would become president on inauguration day. So, that won’t happen. Trump/Pence ends on January 20, 2021 if they have not been elected. Congresscritters’ terms end, and a new Congress is installed, on January 3. The president’s term ends, and a new president is installed, on January 20. If there are no elections, then do all the incumbent Congresscritters cease to be on Jan. 3? Then who takes their place? If there are no elections, then is Pelosi out on Jan. 3? If so, how can she become president on Jan. 20? Who gets the job? ---
**Author:** ![RioRico](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f04885/32.png) [@RioRico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RioRico)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2020, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possibility-of-martial-law/849441/47 "2020-03-17T06:51:00Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > Who gets the job? “Political power grows from the barrel of a gun.” -Mao Whomever the gunsels follow has the job. ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2020, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possibility-of-martial-law/849441/48 "2020-03-17T08:29:14Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > If there are no elections, then do all the incumbent Congresscritters cease to be on Jan. 3? No. There are still 65 Senators in office on that day. Some of the 35 other seats can be filled pretty quickly by temporary appointments until the next special election. > [@](#): > > Who gets the job? If there is no Speaker, the next in line is President Pro Tem of the Senate. That would be the longest serving Senator of the party that was in the majority when the presidency is vacated. Since they have quorum (which is 51) the Senate can then start holding confirmation hearings for new presidential appointments. There are a lot more Republican Senate seats up for election this cycle. It would take a deep dive on which states allow interim appointments, and how they do them, but that seems to lean towards a Democrat. Trump would then probably be replaced by our first female president when his term is up - Dianne Feinstein. Leahy is senior but his term is expiring. VT has interim appointments but a Republican governor so assume Leahy is screwed. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2020, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possibility-of-martial-law/849441/49 "2020-03-17T08:29:51Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > Congresscritters’ terms end, and a new Congress is installed, on January 3. The president’s term ends, and a new president is installed, on January 20. > > If there are no elections, then do all the incumbent Congresscritters cease to be on Jan. 3? Then who takes their place? > > If there are no elections, then is Pelosi out on Jan. 3? If so, how can she become president on Jan. 20? > > Who gets the job? The president pro tempore of the Senate - so either Chuck Grassley or Pat Leahy, depending on which party has the majority after the governors appoint senators to fill the seats that have fallen vacant because there hasn’t been an election. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2020, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possibility-of-martial-law/849441/50 "2020-03-17T09:12:35Z")
We have another thread (or several?) discussing what might happen if Trump claims he won the election and refuses to vacate the office. In the situation discussed in this thread (Trump postpones or cancels the election), he will presumably argue that he remains the president. So does the situation become similar to the case where elections are held and he loses but refuses to leave? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2020, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possibility-of-martial-law/849441/51 "2020-03-17T15:55:32Z")
Similar in the sense of not being remotely possible, yes. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![RioRico](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f04885/32.png) [@RioRico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RioRico)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2020, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possibility-of-martial-law/849441/52 "2020-03-17T17:00:50Z")
> [@DinoR](#): > > If there is no Speaker, the next in line is President Pro Tem of the Senate. That would be the longest serving Senator of the party that was in the majority when the presidency is vacated. The longest-serving majority senator is _usually_ elected [Pres Pro Tem](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President_pro_tempore_of_the_United_States_Senate) but that’s not required. It’s been the practice in my lifetime. Back to topic. Tramp may issue national declarations of emergency and martial law if he thinks it expedient - I can think of several terrible triggers - but [as has been pointed out](https://buzzflash.com/articles/worst-fear-trump-constitutionally-could-remain-president-even-if-he-loses-popular-and-electoral-vote-thom-hartmann-explains), he can stay in office by other means. Martial law is just another tool in his kit. ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2020, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possibility-of-martial-law/849441/53 "2020-03-17T19:13:42Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > So does the situation become similar to the case where elections are held and he loses but refuses to leave? Yes. There is no legal or constitutional basis for him remaining after noon on Jan 20th unless he is duly elected to a second term. He is just a guy who used to be president and the office is vacant until that vacancy is filled in accordance with the law. What you are describing in both threads is called a coup. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2020, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possibility-of-martial-law/849441/54 "2020-03-17T22:59:54Z")
> [@DinoR](#): > > …What you are describing in both threads is called a coup. This may be out of context, but I am reminded of what David Frum [wrote](https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/01/frum-trumpocracy/550685/) two years ago: “If conservatives become convinced that they cannot win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. They will reject democracy.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possibility-of-martial-law/849441.md?page=2)