# Possible 3rd Party Forming on the Right? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 24, 2009, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-3rd-party-forming-on-the-right/514942 "2009-10-24T05:57:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2009, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-3rd-party-forming-on-the-right/514942/81 "2009-10-27T01:53:48Z")
Yes. Who took that poll, by the way? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2009, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-3rd-party-forming-on-the-right/514942/82 "2009-10-27T02:07:45Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Luckily for us, there’s a brand new Gallup poll out today: > > [Conservatives Maintain Edge as Top Ideological Group](http://www.gallup.com/poll/123854/Conservatives-Maintain-Edge-Top-Ideological-Group.aspx) > > While you guys are trying to paint conservatives as a tiny, fading group of people, the reality is that there has not been a single time since at least 1992 when more people identified as conservative. > > In fact, it’s the liberals that are shrinking, which is what I said above. And it’s not even close: > > Conservative: 40% > Moderate: 36% > Liberal: 20% But how many of that 40% do you think are the kind of conservatives you’re talking about? I.e., the kind who cheer for Sarah Palin, are not disgusted by Free Republic or the teabaggers, and might actually support a third party to the **right** of the GOP? [Using a finer instrument, with five categories instead of three, reveals a very different picture.](http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2009/03/political_ideology.html) > [@](#): > > For years, traditional public opinion polling has broken down ideology into three distinct groupings: liberal, moderate, and conservative. Based on this categorization, there has been remarkable stability in ideological orientation, with roughly one-fifth of Americans identifying themselves as “liberal” and about four in 10 classifying themselves as “moderate” or ”conservative,” respectively, according to Gallup polling from 1992 to 2008. > > In this study, however, the electorate is broken down using a more expansive five-point scale of political ideology that reflects the variety of approaches people ascribe to today. Employing this more calibrated measure, 34 percent of the country identifies as “conservative,” 29 percent as “moderate,” 15 percent as “liberal,” 16 percent as “progressive,” and 2 percent as “libertarian.” After moderates are asked which approach they lean toward, the overall ideological breakdown of the country divides into fairly neat left and right groupings, with 47 percent of Americans identifying as progressive or liberal and 48 percent as conservative or libertarian. The rest are unsure or scattered among moderate and other approaches. > > Combining this five-point scale of political ideology with responses to the 40 specific ideological statements, the progressive leanings of the country become readily apparent. On the domestic front, after years of supply-side tax cuts, support for corporations (especially extractive oil and mining companies), and deregulation of the economy, large percentages of Americans increasingly favor progressive ideas centered on: sustainable lifestyles and green energy; public investment in education, infrastructure, and science; financial support for the poor, elderly, and sick; regulation of business to protect workers and consumers; and guaranteed affordable health coverage for every American. On the international front, the legacy of the Bush years has yielded to an American public far more interested in restoring the country’s image abroad, fighting climate change, and pursuing security through diplomacy, alliances, and international institutions than in the continued pursuit of national objectives through the sole projection of military might. > > Approximately two-thirds of Americans—reaching to 70 percent to 80 percent on some measures—agree with progressive ideas in each of these domestic and global areas (see Table 1). Important cleavages emerge in the data, however, between non-college-educated Americans and college-educated elites. Non-college Americans are more populist and progressive than elites on some measures of government and economics and much more conservative on cultural and national security measures. > > The rise of progressivism in America is reflected more starkly in direct ratings of various ideological approaches. Today, more than two-thirds of Americans rate a “progressive” approach to politics favorably, a 25-point increase in favorability over the last five years, with gains coming primarily from those who were previously unaware of the term. “Progressive” now equals ”conservative” in terms of overall public favorability (67 percent, respectively). > > The continuing strength of the conservative brand—if not all of its constitutive ideas—reflects the long-term success of the conservative movement over decades. Despite electoral setbacks and larger proportions of Americans now adhering to progressive ideas about governance and society, the conservative worldview remains appealing to many Americans and creates important cleavages in the electorate, particularly on key cultural and national security beliefs. Conservative principles about markets, spending, national defense, and traditional values enjoy residual strength and could rise in prominence depending on shifts in the economic and political environment. Conservatives may be down but they are not out of the ideology game. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2009, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-3rd-party-forming-on-the-right/514942/83 "2009-10-27T03:34:52Z")
Brainglutton, your source for that is almost five years old. I’m not sure how much relevance it has. In any event, I didn’t say that the conservatives growing in strength had to be far-right wackos. You guys are the ones that characterized the ‘tea party’ people as being a tiny fringe, thereby allowing you to indulge in a ‘no true Scotsman’ fallacy when it comes to conservatives. But there are plenty of data points which indicate the conservative movement is quite large. Besides that poll, you also have the fact that conservative books continue to be huge best sellers, and that FOX news not only beats all other news networks, it beats them by a huge margin. In addition, Republican/Conservative candidates are raising more money than Democratic/liberal candidates. If anything all of the data shows that it’s the left that’s losing ground. You happen to have the Presidency and the Congress because of Bush hatred, punishing the party in power when the economic crisis hit, and because Barack Obama ran as a centrist who promised to end political and racial divisions in the country. Your side chose to see this as a mandate to govern a center-right country from the left, and the result is that you’re losing support rapidly. The Virginia Governor’s race is another data point - the Republican is leading there by 11 points. **Captain Carrot** : I got the result from RealClearPolitics, [here](http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2009/house/ny/new_york_23rd_district_special_election-1119.html). ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2009, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-3rd-party-forming-on-the-right/514942/84 "2009-10-27T04:14:54Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Brainglutton, your source for that is almost five years old. I’m not sure how much relevance it has. The source in post #82 is from this year. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2009, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-3rd-party-forming-on-the-right/514942/85 "2009-10-27T04:19:39Z")
Bush wasn’t blamed or hated for the economic crisis. He was the most unpopular President in modern history long before the recession hit. The recession was pretty much a non-issue as far as people’s opinions of Bush. There is no growth in the conservative movement. Sorry. The nutballs are just more vocal right now. Do you seriously think that mental defectives painting Hitler mustaches on Obama and toting guns to town halls is indicative of any kind of majority of populist sentiment? I asked you before and I’ll ask you again. What IS the teabagger cause if it’s not the crazy stuff they chant and paint on the signs? When you take away the birthers, the deathers, the racists the gun nuts, the religious nuts who think Obama is literally the Antichrist, the people calling him a “nazi,” a"socialist," a “Muslim,” and a “fascist” all at the same time, the idiots who think that advisory “czars” are taking over the world, etc. etc. ad nauseum, what do you have left? What is the driving principle? The core ideal? They don’t like it that their taxes are going down? Yeah, right. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2009, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-3rd-party-forming-on-the-right/514942/86 "2009-10-27T08:03:25Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > There is no growth in the conservative movement. Sorry. The nutballs are just more vocal right now. Do you seriously think that mental defectives painting Hitler mustaches on Obama and toting guns to town halls is indicative of any kind of majority of populist sentiment? So… Care to explain the Gallup results? > [@](#): > > I asked you before and I’ll ask you again. What IS the teabagger cause if it’s not the crazy stuff they chant and paint on the signs? When you take away the birthers, the deathers, the racists the gun nuts, the religious nuts who think Obama is literally the Antichrist, the people calling him a “nazi,” a"socialist," a “Muslim,” and a “fascist” all at the same time, the idiots who think that advisory “czars” are taking over the world, etc. etc. ad nauseum, what do you have left? About 90% of the Tea Parties. The loons are on the fringe. The left has them, the right has them. They’re the ones that seem to make the news. All you’re doing is attempting to smear the entire movement based on a small percentage of nutbars. > [@](#): > > What is the driving principle? The core ideal? They don’t like it that their taxes are going down? Yeah, right. I think the movement has grown as big as it has because it’s _many_ things that have built on each other. There was unease about TARP, followed by more unease about the bailouts. The deficits got people even more nervous. Finally, the trillion dollar health care program pushed a lot of people over the edge. There’s just a growing sense that government is becoming much bigger very fast, and people don’t like it. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2009, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-3rd-party-forming-on-the-right/514942/87 "2009-10-27T15:43:23Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > So… Care to explain the Gallup results? Done did. > [@](#): > > About 90% of the Tea Parties. The loons are on the fringe. The left has them, the right has them. They’re the ones that seem to make the news. All you’re doing is attempting to smear the entire movement based on a small percentage of nutbars. Look, you’ve got a whole TV network promoting these things. If you regard the Tea Partiers as not particularly representative of contemporary conservatism (and unflattering to boot), you need to blame Fox News for the smear job, not anyone on the left. There’s nobody anywhere near as influential on the left that’s trying to give positive publicity to left-wing nutbars. And therein lies the difference. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2009, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-3rd-party-forming-on-the-right/514942/88 "2009-10-27T16:19:52Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > I think the movement has grown as big as it has because it’s _many_ things that have built on each other. There was unease about TARP, followed by more unease about the bailouts. The deficits got people even more nervous. Remind me which president started the bailouts and deficits. You didn’t see them painting Hitler moustaches on Bush for his Big Government takeover of the financial sector. Fact is, most of these guys don’t give a shit about fiscal issues. They care about the culture war. And as proof, note that they didn’t make a peep until Bush was out of office. They hate Obama, not because he increased the deficit or bailed out the financial sector, but because he’s a Democrat. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2009, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-3rd-party-forming-on-the-right/514942/89 "2009-10-27T18:13:38Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Done did. > > Look, you’ve got a whole TV network promoting these things. If you regard the Tea Partiers as not particularly representative of contemporary conservatism (and unflattering to boot), you need to blame Fox News for the smear job, not anyone on the left. I didn’t say the Tea Partiers weren’t representative of contemporary conservatism - I said that the handful of loons you see on TV are not representative of the Tea Partiers. The problem a lot of you have is that you hang out in an echo chamber. Your ideas of who the Tea Partiers are come from lefty blogs, the left-wing media, and the left-wing SDMB. You have no sense of who the opposition is other than what you hear after it’s filtered through the commentary of fellow travelers. The reason I stay engaged on the SDMB is precisely because I don’t want to debate in an echo chamber. I’d rather debate the opposition and gain more perspective in how they think. You should try it. > [@](#): > > There’s nobody anywhere near as influential on the left that’s trying to give positive publicity to left-wing nutbars. And therein lies the difference. I’m not going to apologize for Rush Limbaugh and Glen Beck. I wish the two of them would shut up, or at least tone it down and stay on more substantive issues and away from the crazy. But the fact is, the majority of people attending those tea parties were not crazies. Nor is the right full of crazies. There’s a crazy fringe on the right, and it’s YOU that are trying to turn them into the representatives for everyone on the right. For every ‘birther’ carrying around ‘Obama-as-Hitler’ signs, there are twenty people who are opposing him because they are scared of having their small businesses regulated to death, or of having unionization of their work forces rammed down their throats, or of having their perfectly good health care plans taken away from them. But aside from the specific policy issues, there are simply many, many people on the right who don’t share your ‘progressive’ vision and will fight to stop it. Their vision of who they are and what they want their country to be centers around individual freedom, self-reliance, local authority as opposed to federal authority, low taxes, the right to keep what you earn and to leave it to your children when you die, etc. They don’t want to live in a nanny state, they don’t want the UN to have more power over their lives, and they don’t want someone constantly evaluating them to see if they are living up to someone else’s expectations about ‘service’ or their contribution to the ‘common good’. The reason the right is growing in size and anger right now is because the sheer number of changes that have been put forward have moved the political divide away from specific issues on which many people on the right can disagree, and into a more generalized ‘statism vs individualism’ dynamic. They see big government encroachments in every direction, and it’s alarming them. So social conservatives, libertarians, corporate conservatives, and all the other factions have joined together. You’ve managed the impossible - you’ve reunited the right, and animated them at the same time. Oh, and I must have missed your explanation of the Gallup results - not surprising since you didn’t post anything after I posted them. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2009, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-3rd-party-forming-on-the-right/514942/90 "2009-10-27T18:22:02Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > I didn’t say the Tea Partiers weren’t representative of contemporary conservatism - I said that the handful of loons you see on TV are not representative of the Tea Partiers. Yes they are. Have you been around one? Have you seen one? Can you see them from all the way up there in Canada? I’ve seen one in Minneapolis, and it’s almost _all_ nutbags. There _isn’t_ a coherent message. It’s ALL birther signs and “baby killer” signs, and Joker Obamas. Where are you getting your information, because it isn’t first hand that’s for sure? ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2009, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-3rd-party-forming-on-the-right/514942/91 "2009-10-27T19:11:13Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > But aside from the specific policy issues, there are simply many, many people on the right who don’t share your ‘progressive’ vision and will fight to stop it. Their vision of who they are and what they want their country to be centers around individual freedom, self-reliance, local authority as opposed to federal authority, low taxes, the right to keep what you earn and to leave it to your children when you die, etc. They don’t want to live in a nanny state, they don’t want the UN to have more power over their lives, and they don’t want someone constantly evaluating them to see if they are living up to someone else’s expectations about ‘service’ or their contribution to the ‘common good’. Except, Sam, that your nightmare scenario bears absolutely no resembalence to the actual policies of the Obama administration. It’s a fantasy boogey-man that they’ve created to be afraid of. And besides, since you’re a libertarian you’ve way, way, way overestimated the importance of economic issues to these people. They don’t want gays near their kids. They don’t want Mesikins or Chinamen taking der jerbs. They hate abortion. They wanna keep their guns. They want evolution out of schools and the Bible back in. They want government to keep its hands off their social security and medicare. They want the CIA to torture prisoners. And to the extent that they care about economic issues, they are incoherent. For some reason all these people scared of losing their small business to the faceless Obamacrats all support the policies of the bankers and stockbrokers and corporate CEOs. You think the Teabaggers are representatives of the “Individualists” vs Obama’s “Statists”. But they aren’t limited government conservatives, they’re white populists. This kind of conservatism is very common in Europe, and now it’s becoming the dominant strain of conservatism in the United States. Classic Conservatives certainly weren’t in favor of limited goverment as you well know. The Democrats under Obama might end up party that’s closer to the classic liberals. Or we could end up with a European-style social-democratic Democratic party. I don’t argue that the Democratic party is a particularly libertarian party, although it might become more so. But you’re dreaming if you think the Republican party is going to be the party of limited government any time soon. And here’s my proof. Who do they love more than anyone? Sarah Palin. Now, ask yourself why in hell anyone who wasn’t a populist nutball would love Sarah Palin. And so you don’t have ANYBODY who represents your vision of individualism. The Democrats might not, but the Republicans and the conservative movement certainly don’t. You’re horrified about Obama, but you’re delusional if you think there’s any sort of coherent response to him that wouldn’t horrify you just as much, or more. You’re dreaming if you think the right is united against Obama’s socialist vision. It’s true that they all hate Obama, sure. But it ain’t because of his economic policies, which are a continuation of the Bush era. They hate Obama because he’s not a conservative, but nobody can agree on what conservative should mean. Are Bush, Limbaugh, Beck, Rove, Cheney, and Palin conservatives as you think of them? You kick Bush and Rove out of the conservative movement, and what the hell were the last 8 years about? Somehow these guys never turn out to be “real” conservatives when in power. They never reduce government spending. They never simplify regulations. They never stop shoveling money into corporate welfare. They never try to reduce the power of government. And of course, they also never ban abortion, recriminalize sodomy, or put the Bible back in schools. So the Republican party represents neither the small-government libertarian fiscal conservatives, or the religious right social conservatives, and never does a goddam thing for either of them. Because of course, it turns out that the people who really control the Republican party are the big business/big government corporate conservatives. And this unites all these conservatives in a hatred of…Obama. Yes, they blame Obama for all of this. Now, how does that make sense? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2009, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-3rd-party-forming-on-the-right/514942/92 "2009-10-27T19:46:04Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > So the Republican party represents neither the small-government libertarian fiscal conservatives, or the religious right social conservatives, and never does a goddam thing for either of them. Because of course, it turns out that the people who really control the Republican party are the big business/big government corporate conservatives. I’ve said this for years and I’ll say it again: The Republican Party consists of rich people and suckers. (And I used to be a Republican, until I realized what a sucker I was.) The rich people need the votes of the fundamentalists and the libertarians to win elections. But even when the Pubbies are in power, those two factions never get squat. Abortion is still legal and the government keeps getting bigger – because for years the party has been running a con on most of its members. It gets them riled up about their hot-button issues to get them out to the polls, then uses its power to make the rich (and rich corporations) even richer. The growing schism the the result of the fundies realizing how much power they really have and how badly they’ve been screwed over the years. The libertarians are also doing it to a lesser degree (Ron Paul), but since they’re weaker and more marginal than the fundies, they’re never going to gain much traction. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2009, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-3rd-party-forming-on-the-right/514942/93 "2009-10-27T20:07:04Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Except, Sam, that your nightmare scenario bears absolutely no resembalence to the actual policies of the Obama administration. It’s a fantasy boogey-man that they’ve created to be afraid of. > > And besides, since you’re a libertarian you’ve way, way, way overestimated the importance of economic issues to these people. They don’t want gays near their kids. They don’t want Mesikins or Chinamen taking der jerbs. They hate abortion. They wanna keep their guns. They want evolution out of schools and the Bible back in. They want government to keep its hands off their social security and medicare. They want the CIA to torture prisoners. I know of only two people who went to tea parties. Both of them voted for Clinton. At least one, probably both (they are maried), are pro-choice and pro-gay rights. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2009, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-3rd-party-forming-on-the-right/514942/94 "2009-10-27T21:00:00Z")
> [@furt](#): > > I know of only two people who went to tea parties. Both of them voted for Clinton. At least one, probably both (they are maried), are pro-choice and pro-gay rights. And they somehow imagine that Hillary is some sort of small-government libertarian? What kind of drugs are they on? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2009, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-3rd-party-forming-on-the-right/514942/95 "2009-10-27T21:08:12Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > But aside from the specific policy issues, there are simply many, many people on the right who don’t share your ‘progressive’ vision and will fight to stop it. Their vision of who they are and what they want their country to be centers around individual freedom, self-reliance, **local authority as opposed to federal authority,** low taxes, the right to keep what you earn and to leave it to your children when you die, etc.. One of these things is not like the others. One of these things just doesn’t belong. ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2009, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-3rd-party-forming-on-the-right/514942/96 "2009-10-28T01:52:52Z")
> [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > I’ve said this for years and I’ll say it again: The Republican Party consists of rich people and suckers. (And I used to be a Republican, until I realized what a sucker I was.) > > The rich people need the votes of the fundamentalists and the libertarians to win elections. But even when the Pubbies are in power, those two factions never get squat. Abortion is still legal and the government keeps getting bigger – because for years the party has been running a con on most of its members. It gets them riled up about their hot-button issues to get them out to the polls, then uses its power to make the rich (and rich corporations) even richer. > > The growing schism the the result of the fundies realizing how much power they really have and how badly they’ve been screwed over the years. The libertarians are also doing it to a lesser degree (Ron Paul), but since they’re weaker and more marginal than the fundies, they’re never going to gain much traction. Agreed. Do you honestly think the GOP gives a shit about abortion or gay marriage or prayer in school. Those are just the carrots that they use to lure their base to the polls. They had eight years to tackle those issues, but didn’t do squat. However they had no shortage of ideas about how to make their rich cronies richer. That’s why I often rolled my eyes during the Bush administration when social progressives feared that the GOP was going to turn America into a theocracy. The faith that really matters to many Republican is that of the almighty dollar. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2009, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-3rd-party-forming-on-the-right/514942/97 "2009-10-28T02:16:18Z")
I think this is hilarious. The stand that this rogue’s gallery of losers is making are going to cost Republicans a district that they possibly could have won otherwise. Hoffman looked like a fool by knowing nothing about the district he wants to represent. I hope Kristen Gillebrand gets up in that campaign and points out what a carpetbagger Hoffman is. Looks like the Dems have just at least one secure seat in New York. Thanks grandstanding ego-maniacs. ---
**Author:** ![Hellestal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3ab097/32.png) [@Hellestal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hellestal)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2009, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-3rd-party-forming-on-the-right/514942/98 "2009-10-28T04:13:20Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Remind me which president started the bailouts and deficits. You didn’t see them painting Hitler moustaches on Bush for his Big Government takeover of the financial sector. > > Fact is, most of these guys don’t give a shit about fiscal issues. They care about the culture war. And as proof, note that they didn’t make a peep until Bush was out of office. > > They hate Obama, not because he increased the deficit or bailed out the financial sector, but because he’s a Democrat. Somebody give **Lemur866** a megaphone and a prominent pedestal in town square. This needs to be loudly and consistently repeated. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2009, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-3rd-party-forming-on-the-right/514942/99 "2009-10-28T04:49:01Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > And they somehow imagine that Hillary is some sort of small-government libertarian? What kind of drugs are they on? Bill Clinton, not Hillary. They’ve just moved from being center-left to center-right over the years; a lot of it because they had kids. In that, they are not some kind of a mirror of the country or anything. But they are not raging right-wing loons; just people that think massive deficits are bad for the future of the country. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2009, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-3rd-party-forming-on-the-right/514942/100 "2009-10-28T04:56:49Z")
Why are they blaming Obama for Bush’s deficits? Have you made any effort to alleviate their ignorance? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-3rd-party-forming-on-the-right/514942.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-3rd-party-forming-on-the-right/514942.md?page=6)