# Possible deadly Chinese submarine clusterfuck **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 4, 2023, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-deadly-chinese-submarine-clusterfuck/991079 "2023-10-04T02:24:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2023, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-deadly-chinese-submarine-clusterfuck/991079/1 "2023-10-04T02:24:58Z")
A Chinese nuclear sub possibly (China is denying) gets caught in China’s own submarine net, is damaged badly enough to require 6 hours to escape, repair, and surface, and somehow the air supply or scrubbers or something is damaged enough that 55 crew members die before they can surface. > **[55 Chinese sailors feared dead after submarine 'caught in trap'](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12589429/amp/chinese-sailors-trap-yellow-sea.html?ico=amp_articleRelated_with_images)** > > EXCLUSIVE Officially, China has denied the incident took place. It also appears Beijing refused to request international assistance for its stricken submarine. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2023, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-deadly-chinese-submarine-clusterfuck/991079/2 "2023-10-04T02:38:52Z")
Great. Now I got Elvis stuck in my head. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2023, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-deadly-chinese-submarine-clusterfuck/991079/3 "2023-10-04T02:50:19Z")
Why does China have submarine nets deployed? The article says “trying to trap the Brits.” Are British submarines sneaking into Chinese harbors? Why would they? I think they could get SIGINT form further off shore and with satellites and spies get most anything they need. And if these traps are further out to sea then that would seem likely to spark an international incident if they did snag a British submarine. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2023, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-deadly-chinese-submarine-clusterfuck/991079/4 "2023-10-04T02:56:26Z")
Haven’t seen any reputable news sites yet report on this. Jus’ sayin’ ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2023, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-deadly-chinese-submarine-clusterfuck/991079/5 "2023-10-04T02:56:44Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Are British submarines sneaking into Chinese harbors? No, obviously the nets are working. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2023, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-deadly-chinese-submarine-clusterfuck/991079/6 "2023-10-04T02:58:54Z")
> Twenty-two officers were among the 55 reported to have died in the Yellow Sea Just _try_ to snatch the vestiges of hierarchialism from the Daily Mail’s claws, I dare you. Meanwhile, China is denying it, but some Admiral is about to disappear. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2023, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-deadly-chinese-submarine-clusterfuck/991079/7 "2023-10-04T04:56:05Z")
Maybe they are chasing fish farts? > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Why does China have submarine nets deployed? The article says “trying to trap the Brits.” Are British submarines sneaking into Chinese harbors? Why would they? ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2023, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-deadly-chinese-submarine-clusterfuck/991079/8 "2023-10-04T05:06:38Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > Great. Now I got Elvis stuck in my head. [If this is wrong, I don’t want to be right.](https://youtube.com/watch?v=RxOBOhRECoo) ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2023, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-deadly-chinese-submarine-clusterfuck/991079/9 "2023-10-04T05:19:37Z")
At the risk of being non-PC, everybody sing along! We’re all stuck in a yellow submarine, yellow submarine, yellow submarine. ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2023, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-deadly-chinese-submarine-clusterfuck/991079/10 "2023-10-04T06:01:45Z")
To be pedantic: _We all lived in a yellow sea submarine, a yellow sea submarine, a yellow sea submarine…_ ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2023, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-deadly-chinese-submarine-clusterfuck/991079/11 "2023-10-04T06:49:30Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > EXCLUSIVE Officially, China has denied the incident took place. It also appears Beijing refused to request international assistance for its stricken submarine. The Soviets did the same for the Kursk submarine disaster. ---
**Author:** ![Wolf333](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf333/32/3460_2.png) [@Wolf333](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolf333)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2023, 9:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-deadly-chinese-submarine-clusterfuck/991079/12 "2023-10-04T09:33:08Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > Maybe they are chasing fish farts? Because of that incident, I got to hear a scientist use the phrase “cacophony of farts.” ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2023, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-deadly-chinese-submarine-clusterfuck/991079/13 "2023-10-04T10:14:56Z")
To “hoist by his own petard” we can now add “sunk by his own sub trap”. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2023, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-deadly-chinese-submarine-clusterfuck/991079/14 "2023-10-04T10:54:39Z")
> [@Projammer](#): > > At the risk of being non-PC, everybody sing along! > > We’re all stuck in a yellow submarine, yellow submarine, yellow submarine. Referring to someone of Asian descent as being “yellow” isn’t just non-PC. It’s considered to be an extremely offensive racist slur. Don’t make offensive racist jokes. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2023, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-deadly-chinese-submarine-clusterfuck/991079/15 "2023-10-04T11:14:24Z")
I looked up “Yellow Sea” to see if it is, in fact, a derogatory term, and found this instead. Apparently, it’s real accepted name is just that, and the reason is geological in nature. I just signed in here today and have already learned something! 🙂 > The **Yellow Sea** is a [marginal sea](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marginal_sea) of the [Western Pacific Ocean](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Pacific_Ocean) located between [mainland China](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mainland_China) and the [Korean Peninsula](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Peninsula), and can be considered the northwestern part of the [East China Sea](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_China_Sea). It is one of four seas named after common [colour terms](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colour_term) (the others being the [Black Sea](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sea), the [Red Sea](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Sea) and the [White Sea](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Sea)), and its name is descriptive of the golden-yellow color of the [silt](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silt)-ridden water discharged from major rivers. > > The innermost bay of northwestern Yellow Sea is called the [Bohai Sea](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohai_Sea) (previously Gulf of [Zhili](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhili_province) / [Beizhili](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Zhili)), into which flow some of the most important rivers of [northern China](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_China), such as the [Yellow River](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_River) (through [Shandong](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shandong) province and its capital [Jinan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jinan)), the [Hai River](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hai_River) (through [Beijing](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beijing) and [Tianjin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tianjin)) and the [Liao River](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liao_River) (through [Liaoning](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liaoning) province). The northeastern extension of the Yellow Sea is called the [Korea Bay](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korea_Bay), into which flow the [Yalu River](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yalu_River), the [Chongchon River](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chongchon_River) and the [Taedong River](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taedong_River). > > Since November 1, 2018, the Yellow Sea has also served as the location of “peace zones” between [North](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korea) and [South Korea](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Korea).[[1]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_Sea#cite_note-nov1-1) ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2023, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-deadly-chinese-submarine-clusterfuck/991079/16 "2023-10-04T13:21:44Z")
It’s interesting that the Mail article has a diagram of a generic attack sub, but the accompanying photo is a file pic of a SSBN strategic missile launching boat. File pix of Chinese subs must be few and far between. Per the article just over half the crew was killed. And further the dead were 50% officers. We don’t have any public breakdown on the officer/enlisted ratio of any Chinese subs that I could find, but if we assume the death toll is a) accurate, and b) is representative of the total crew force, that suggest the Chinese subs are staffed much as the Russians do, with comparatively few sailors and lots of officers vs. Western practice. Which in turn suggests overall that recruitment and training of sailors don’t attract the “best and brightest” of even the working class. ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2023, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-deadly-chinese-submarine-clusterfuck/991079/17 "2023-10-04T20:23:49Z")
Still no news after one day? Let me see if I understand it correctly: a Chinese submarine gets entangled in its own trap, set up against British and US subs. There is a malfunction in the oxygen generating system (a strange thing to happen in a nuclear powered submarine, they are built to stay underwater forever in case of conflict), 55 crew, including the captain and many officers, die. Although the submarine is very big and should have oxygen to last for days. Some survive. I infer that the sub regained maneuvrability and went to port with the survivors. It did not sink like the Kursk, did not explode or implode. After reaching port, the Chinese autorities deny anything happened at all, and with no shipwreck nothing can be proven. The accident may have happened as the Daily Mail reported or it may not. Did I get it right? ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2023, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-deadly-chinese-submarine-clusterfuck/991079/18 "2023-10-04T21:09:51Z")
That sure seems to be the substance of what’s been reported. Which substance seems to me to be pretty insubstantial at this point. Until / unless some other western power comes out and says through official channels something about something they’ve seen or heard, this is going to remain no more than a rumor that Brit intel learned something somehow which was then leaked some-other-how to the penny press. By that standard the “there are aliens” claims of David Grusch this summer are highly substantiated. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2023, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-deadly-chinese-submarine-clusterfuck/991079/19 "2023-11-20T17:29:01Z")
Here’s a submarine near-disaster that apparently was real. > **[Royal Navy nuclear submarine sinks towards ‘danger zone’](https://news.yahoo.com/royal-navy-nuclear-submarine-sinks-024751477.html)** > > Disaster averted after a depth gauge failed on one of the Vanguard class submarines that carry 140 crew and ballistic missiles ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2023, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-deadly-chinese-submarine-clusterfuck/991079/20 "2023-11-20T17:35:11Z")
Great. Now I got Kenny Loggins stuck in my head. I’m hoping the reporting is wrong, rather than there’s exactly one depth gauge on the bridge. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-deadly-chinese-submarine-clusterfuck/991079.md?page=2)