# Possible origin of the vulgarism “Quim.” **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 24, 2012, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-origin-of-the-vulgarism-quim/610462 "2012-01-24T02:21:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![wei\_ji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9a140/32.png) [@wei\_ji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wei_ji)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2012, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-origin-of-the-vulgarism-quim/610462/1 "2012-01-24T02:21:12Z")
According to dictionaries, the British slang term, “Quim,” meaning the vulva or vagina, is of uncertain origin. I heard it used in the movie “Rob Roy,” which was heavy with Gaelic cultural references. I recently found a glossary of mountaineering terms in a book on the search for Mallory and Irvine, British climbers famously lost on Mount Everest in 1924. One of the terms listed was the Welsh word “Qwm,” defined as a mountain basin or cirque. Here is the definition of “cirque” in the short Oxford® dictionary: “A large bowl-shaped hollow of glacial origin at the head of a valley or on a mountainside.” This seems suspiciously compatible with the slang term, to me. For what it’s worth Welsh is a Gaelic language, though of a different subgroup from Scots Gaelic. I offer this up as fodder for word enthusiasts—though I‘m not even sure how the Welsh “Qwm” is pronounced ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2012, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-origin-of-the-vulgarism-quim/610462/2 "2012-01-24T02:44:35Z")
> [@wei\_ji](#): > > I offer this up as fodder for word enthusiasts—though I‘m not even sure how the Welsh “Qwm” is pronounced “Throatwarbler Mangrove” ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2012, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-origin-of-the-vulgarism-quim/610462/3 "2012-01-24T03:00:04Z")
> [@wei\_ji](#): > > One of the terms listed was the Welsh word “Qwm,” defined as a mountain basin or cirque. It’s pronounced approximately [“coom”](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cwm), so not really like quim (“kwim”). ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2012, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-origin-of-the-vulgarism-quim/610462/4 "2012-01-24T03:06:19Z")
> [@wei\_ji](#): > > For what it’s worth Welsh is a Gaelic language, though of a different subgroup from Scots Gaelic. Correction: Welsh is a _Celtic_ language, but not Gaelic (Goidelic), which is the Scots/Irish/Manx branch of the Celtic family, differentiated from the Bretonic (Brythonic) branch, which includes Breton Welsh and Cornish. For the record, qwm is now spelled cwm. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2012, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-origin-of-the-vulgarism-quim/610462/5 "2012-01-24T03:29:28Z")
Somewhat related: I’ve found it interesting that “fanny” means vagina in Brit speak but “rear end” in American. Anyone know how that came to be? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2012, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-origin-of-the-vulgarism-quim/610462/6 "2012-01-24T04:26:41Z")
Americans always get everything ass-backwards. ---
**Author:** ![rowrrbazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rowrrbazzle/32/414_2.png) [@rowrrbazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rowrrbazzle)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2012, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-origin-of-the-vulgarism-quim/610462/7 "2012-01-24T04:45:55Z")
Saith the OED: > [@](#): > > Etymology: Origin uncertain. Perhaps a transferred use of _queem_ n. Compare earlier _quaint_ n.1, and also earlier _cunt_ n. > > A derivation from Welsh _cwm_ valley (see _cwm_ n.) has sometimes been suggested, but is unlikely on both semantic and phonological grounds. ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2012, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-origin-of-the-vulgarism-quim/610462/8 "2012-01-24T07:22:15Z")
From the TV show? Something about a medicine woman. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2012, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-origin-of-the-vulgarism-quim/610462/9 "2012-01-24T11:05:44Z")
> [@Isamu](#): > > From the TV show? Something about a medicine woman. 😛 Starring Henry VIII’s third wife 😛 ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2012, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-origin-of-the-vulgarism-quim/610462/10 "2012-01-24T13:01:47Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > Somewhat related: I’ve found it interesting that “fanny” means vagina in Brit speak but “rear end” in American. Anyone know how that came to be? We’ve had another thread on that recently. As I’ve pointed out, Americans aren’t the only ones to use “fanny” for “rear end”. Look at the petanque term “fanny”. I seriously doubt that the French adopted it from American slang. [http://www.simplytreasures.com/t-la\_fanny.aspx](http://www.simplytreasures.com/t-la_fanny.aspx) > **[petanque.org - Sports News from All Over the World for Petanque Lovers](https://www.petanque.org)** > > Petanque.org is a blog about the world of petanque, also bringing you the latest from world sports – basketball, soccer live scores, NFL, and the Olympics. As for “Quim”, it’s an older, archaic term. It makes as much sense to look for its origin as it does for the origin of “arse”. (That is, there’s always reason to look for word origins and changes in usage. But it’s not as if you’re trying to divine the origin of a recent slang term. You’ll be looking into deeper old word roots) ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-origin-of-the-vulgarism-quim/610462/11 "2012-01-25T02:48:16Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > We’ve had another thread on that recently. As I’ve pointed out, Americans aren’t the only ones to use “fanny” for “rear end”. Look at the petanque term “fanny”. I seriously doubt that the French adopted it from American slang. > > [http://www.simplytreasures.com/t-la\_fanny.aspx](http://www.simplytreasures.com/t-la_fanny.aspx) > > [petanque.org - Sports News from All Over the World for Petanque Lovers](http://www.petanque.org/pictures/306.shtml) > > As for “Quim”, it’s an older, archaic term. It makes as much sense to look for its origin as it does for the origin of “arse”. (That is, there’s always reason to look for word origins and changes in usage. But it’s not as if you’re trying to divine the origin of a recent slang term. You’ll be looking into deeper old word roots) Thanks. No, I’m sure we probably got it from the French. Here in Bangkok’s Soi Cowboy red-light area is a bar called Fanny’s. It means one thing to Americans and another to the Brits. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Sister\_Vigilante](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@Sister\_Vigilante](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sister_Vigilante)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-origin-of-the-vulgarism-quim/610462/12 "2012-01-25T17:51:11Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > Thanks. No, I’m sure we probably got it from the French. > > Here in Bangkok’s Soi Cowboy red-light area is a bar called Fanny’s. It means one thing to Americans and another to the Brits. 😃 My great grandmother’s name was Fannie. I have no idea how it came to be a person’s name. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-origin-of-the-vulgarism-quim/610462/13 "2012-01-25T17:55:49Z")
> [@Sister\_Vigilante](#): > > My great grandmother’s name was Fannie. I have no idea how it came to be a person’s name. It’s supposed to be a diminutive of _Frances_ ==\> Franny ==\> Fanny. “Fanny” is used as a form of the name in Britain, despite all the talk about its vulgarity. I suspect the association lead to the use of the name in the title of the book _Fanny Hill_. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-origin-of-the-vulgarism-quim/610462/14 "2012-01-25T19:11:54Z")
I’m only aware of it from a song I heard as a lad: “She was out on the prairie, no pants on her Quim, A rattlesnake saw her and flung himself in. Yes, Charlotte the Harlot gave cowpokes a fright The only vagina that rattles and bites!” ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-origin-of-the-vulgarism-quim/610462/15 "2012-01-25T19:16:53Z")
Somebody please tell the \*Lexulous \*and _Words-with-Friends_ people that QUIM is a legal word. ---
**Author:** ![wei\_ji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9a140/32.png) [@wei\_ji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wei_ji)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2012, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-origin-of-the-vulgarism-quim/610462/16 "2012-01-28T21:55:25Z")
Well it was fun while it lasted–and I have an answer. Thanks particularly to “rowrrbazzle” for an authoritative source citing the Welsh word. Also, thanks for the clarification on the two branches of Celtic languange. My ancestors spoke the Brythonic variant. I should have known someone would know how to pronounce the Welsh correcty–and to spell it in the modern form in the bargain. Regarding the peripheral issue that sprang up on the different meanings for “fanny” in British and American English: > [@silenus](#): > > Americans always get everything ass-backwards. Note that in 1970 a Brit asked me if I had a “fag.” It seems he just wanted a cigarette. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2012, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-origin-of-the-vulgarism-quim/610462/17 "2012-01-29T03:37:12Z")
> [@wei\_ji](#): > > Note that in 1970 a Brit asked me if I had a “fag.” It seems he just wanted a cigarette. Just wait till they ask you for a rubber! ---
**Author:** ![wei\_ji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9a140/32.png) [@wei\_ji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wei_ji)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2012, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-origin-of-the-vulgarism-quim/610462/18 "2012-02-01T19:03:13Z")
rowrrbazzle "Saith the OED: Quote: Etymology: Origin uncertain. Perhaps a transferred use of queem n. Compare earlier quaint n.1, and also earlier cunt n. A derivation from Welsh cwm valley (see cwm n.) has sometimes been suggested, but is unlikely on both semantic and phonological grounds" Post Script: The dictionary I used here at the library to investigate this was “The New Shorter Oxford English Dictionary,” two volumes, which does NOT have the note you quoted–and these two volumes are 2.5 inches thick each! Shorter isn’t always better. It does claim the term is “chiefly N. American.” There is no “quim” listed in the Webster’s Third International, which sits in regal authority on its own lecturn here, waiting to inflict a hernia on anyone trying to move it. The Webster’s New Universal Unabridged Dictionary lists no “quim” (though it has “quince,” but that’s another issue). Several online sources I checked just define it, proclaim it a vulgarism, and say the origin is obscure. (No transfer of blame for its use to N. America.) My point here is that you really do have to go to the right source. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2012, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-origin-of-the-vulgarism-quim/610462/19 "2012-02-01T22:09:45Z")
I love that we speak a language with dictionaries that are measured in tonnage.