# Possible Real ID problem? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 29, 2025, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-real-id-problem/1017664 "2025-04-29T20:02:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2025, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-real-id-problem/1017664/161 "2025-05-28T15:00:17Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Others are reading it as every move or renewal or whatever requires an _ab initio_ proof of your name(s) and right(s) to be in the USA from present day back to birth. I don’t know that any states are doing that, requiring proof of everything for every renewal (after all, my citizenship is unlikely to change and my birth date sure doesn’t) but I will say if a person can change the address on their license, provide no proof of the new address and it will still be valid as Real ID , then that does nothing more than highlight the pointlessness of address requirements for Real ID. I can get on a plane with my passport which has no address listed. Apparently, one can get on a plane using a Real ID that displaying an address the state never verified - but if , for some reason, I want my mailing address printed on my ID rather than the residence address, it’s not valid for Federal purposes. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2025, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-real-id-problem/1017664/162 "2025-05-28T15:04:31Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > In my state we still had no picture DLs into the 2000s. _ **Newly-issued** _ DLs in your state didn’t have photos as recently as, say, 2001? Or people who got their licenses in, say, the early 1970s could keep renewing their photo-less DL in perpetuity and were essentially grandfathered in decades later? I picked up from somewhere years ago that the last no-photo driver’s licenses in the US were Alabama’s circa the early 1970s. But I can’t confirm that anywhere and doubt that it’s true. To my surprise, it’s not the easiest thing to Google. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2025, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-real-id-problem/1017664/163 "2025-05-28T15:15:09Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > picked up from somewhere years ago that the last no-photo driver’s licenses in the US were Alabama’s circa the early 1970s. That’s definitely not true - I got my first NYS license somewhere around 1981 and there was no photo. [Apparently](https://www.nytimes.com/1984/07/02/nyregion/state-to-start-issuing-photo-driver-licenses.html) , NYS was the last state to require photos in 1984 but they were phased in as licenses were renewed so it may have taken other states longer before everyone had a photo-license ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2025, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-real-id-problem/1017664/164 "2025-05-28T15:15:42Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > > [@Loach](#): > > > > In my state we still had no picture DLs into the 2000s. > > _ **Newly-issued** _ DLs in your state didn’t have photos as recently as, say, 2001? Or people who got their licenses in, say, the early 1970s could keep renewing their photo-less DL in perpetuity and were essentially grandfathered in decades later? > > I picked up from somewhere years ago that the last no-photo driver’s licenses in the US were Alabama’s circa the early 1970s. But I can’t confirm that anywhere and doubt that it’s true. To my surprise, it’s not the easiest thing to Google. My first DL was in the mid 1980s. It did not have a picture. I later got one with a picture because it was easier when living out of state. EYou had to go in person to renew and I chose not to and again got a no photo ID. It wasn’t until it was required in the early 2000s that I got a picture ID. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2025, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-real-id-problem/1017664/165 "2025-05-28T15:20:41Z")
I distinctly remember being turned away from a bar in Louisville Kentucky with my valid no photo NJ DL in 1998. I was over 30 but it was a place that carded me everyone. I had my military ID so I was able to go in. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2025, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-real-id-problem/1017664/166 "2025-05-28T15:29:29Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > That’s definitely not true - I got my first NYS license somewhere around 1981 and there was no photo. [Apparently](https://www.nytimes.com/1984/07/02/nyregion/state-to-start-issuing-photo-driver-licenses.html) , NYS was the last state to require photos in 1984 but they were phased in as licenses were renewed so it may have taken other states longer before everyone had a photo-license I had a very similar experience in Wisconsin. I first got a DL in 1981, just after I turned 16, and it had no photo (and was just printed on cardstock); that was the standard for Wisconsin licenses at that point, though licenses for minors were a different color than those for adults. When I renewed my license in early 1984, it had a photo, and was a laminated card. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2025, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-real-id-problem/1017664/167 "2025-05-28T15:32:19Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > I got my first NYS license somewhere around 1981 and there was no photo. [Apparently](https://www.nytimes.com/1984/07/02/nyregion/state-to-start-issuing-photo-driver-licenses.html) , NYS was the last state to require photos in 1984 but they were phased in as licenses were renewed so it may have taken other states longer before everyone had a photo-license Thanks for that link. A little more digging turned up this fascinating article, with loads of photos: > **[Evolution of the New York Driver’s License](https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/interactive/2013/03/17/nyregion/17licenses-evolution.html?_r=0)** > > New York State first began issuing paper licenses to chauffeurs in 1910, and the shape, form and style have changed over the past century, adapting to new laws and technologies. Here’s a series of sample NY State DL’s ranging from 1969 through 1983. Very similar throughout those years, and no photos. _As an aside:_ I don’t think I’ve ever seen italic [**MICR**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_ink_character_recognition) text before. [![](http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/images/multimedia/bundles/projects/2013/Licenses/1972front.jpg) ](http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/images/multimedia/bundles/projects/2013/Licenses/1972front.jpg) [![](http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/images/multimedia/bundles/projects/2013/Licenses/1976front.jpg) ](http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/images/multimedia/bundles/projects/2013/Licenses/1976front.jpg) [![](https://www.democratandchronicle.com/gcdn/presto/2018/09/07/PROC/b07ed736-409c-4807-9d47-0fb0f0a8f063-R_Wegman_license_1.jpg?crop=602,339,x1,y38&width=602&height=301&format=pjpg&auto=webp) ](https://www.democratandchronicle.com/gcdn/presto/2018/09/07/PROC/b07ed736-409c-4807-9d47-0fb0f0a8f063-R_Wegman_license_1.jpg?crop=602,339,x1,y38&width=602&height=301&format=pjpg&auto=webp) … @Loach , if your mid-1980s license was a New York State DL … it must’ve resembled the third photo above. Those were being issued in New York up until July 2, 1984 per **doreen’s** linked article. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2025, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-real-id-problem/1017664/168 "2025-05-28T15:34:26Z")
New Jersey. Looked less fake than that but no picture ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2025, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-real-id-problem/1017664/169 "2025-05-28T15:35:22Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > You had to go in person to renew and I chose not to and again got a no photo ID. I think I lost you here. You had to go in person to renew … but you chose not to … renew? Or something else, like you were given a choice of renewal license (with or w/o picture)? ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2025, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-real-id-problem/1017664/170 "2025-05-28T15:41:47Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > New Jersey. Looked less fake than that but no picture . Here’s a sample NJ license that was apparently renewed in 1991: [![](https://dygtyjqp7pi0m.cloudfront.net/i/4087/5302162_3m.jpg?v=8C781496BEC0670) ](https://dygtyjqp7pi0m.cloudfront.net/i/4087/5302162_3m.jpg?v=8C781496BEC0670) Although it looks like _ **newly-issued** _ NJ licenses had photos for some years before that. Again going by **doreen’s** NYT link … New York was the last state to adopt photo DLs in July 1984. I imagine New Jersey adopted photo DLs not long before New York. EDIT: Yes, New Jersey phased in photo DLs between 1982 and 1984 for those getting licenses for the first time. [Details at this link (PDF of NJ bill amendment)](https://repo.njstatelib.org/bitstreams/c97731ba-396e-42cb-91cb-0987de8c4494/download) - see page 3. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2025, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-real-id-problem/1017664/171 "2025-05-28T15:58:52Z")
When my father was adopted by his stepfather in the 50s (age 13), he was issued a new birth certificate with his new name, which also listed his adoptive stepfather in place of his biofather. It added his confirmation name as a middle name, so he went from Fred Fowl to Fred George Drake. It was, in fact, quite a procedure to acquire a copy of his original birth certificate (not for Real ID, which I’m not sure he’ll bother to get; just to have). I post that as an example of how casual people used to be about names, and for the fact that the state was perfectly content to record data it knew to be false on an official certificate. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2025, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-real-id-problem/1017664/172 "2025-05-28T16:12:12Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > I post that as an example of how casual people used to be about names, and for the fact that the state was perfectly content to record data it knew to be false on an official certificate. I don’t know that it’s an example of people being casual about names - it’s sort of standard in the US for a new birth certificate (with the names of the adoptive parents and possibly a new name) to be issued and the original one sealed in the case of any adoption , whether by a stepparent or unrelated people. It’s only fairly recently that it’s been possible for a person to even get a copy of the original. An example of people being “casual about names” would be the people who were _not_ adopted by their stepfather and who _didn’t_ have a new birth certificate issued but nonetheless were registered at school using the stepfather’s surname and used the stepfather’s name to get ID etc - who now have trouble because none of their documents match the birth certificate. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2025, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-real-id-problem/1017664/173 "2025-05-28T16:14:05Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > An example of people being “casual about names” would be the people who were _not_ adopted by their stepfather and who _didn’t_ have a new birth certificate issued but nonetheless were registered at school using the stepfather’s surname and used the stepfather’s name to get ID etc - who now have trouble because none of their documents match the birth certificate. This sure sounds familiar. 😁 ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2025, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-real-id-problem/1017664/174 "2025-05-28T16:21:03Z")
I may have already posted this. If so, I apologize. I didn’t bother to get a Real ID when it was first announced. The deadline was pushed back repeatedly over the years and I wasn’t sure I would ever actually need one. This year, it became clear that the deadline would not be pushed back again. I have no need to enter federal buildings. But I fly to Florida to visit family at least once each year. Rather than wait to get a Real ID this winter when I was planning to fly, I decided to get one in case of a family emergency. I am very glad I did. Mom had a medical emergency two weeks ago. I found out at eleven pm Sunday. I booked a flight for Monday afternoon. I don’t know what additional screening I would have had to go through or what additional documentation I would have needed to bring in order to fly. I am not sure whether I would have been able to fly at all. Getting a Real ID meant spending extra money and going through some hassle. Attempting to fly without one would have been significantly more stressful. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2025, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-real-id-problem/1017664/175 "2025-05-28T16:39:46Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > > [@Loach](#): > > > > New Jersey. Looked less fake than that but no picture . > > Here’s a sample NJ license that was apparently renewed in 1991: > > [https://dygtyjqp7pi0m.cloudfront.net/i/4087/5302162\_3m.jpg?v=8C781496BEC0670](https://dygtyjqp7pi0m.cloudfront.net/i/4087/5302162_3m.jpg?v=8C781496BEC0670) > > Although it looks like _ **newly-issued** _ NJ licenses had photos for some years before that. Again going by **doreen’s** NYT link … New York was the last state to adopt photo DLs in July 1984. I imagine New Jersey adopted photo DLs not long before New York. > > EDIT: Yes, New Jersey phased in photo DLs between 1982 and 1984 for those getting licenses for the first time. [Details at this link (PDF of NJ bill amendment)](https://repo.njstatelib.org/bitstreams/c97731ba-396e-42cb-91cb-0987de8c4494/download) - see page 3. Yes that’s what they looked like. The vehicle registration looked exactly the same (and still looks similar). I didn’t break down all of the legalese but it does look like there was quite a lot of changes along the way. If you look at the last page there is a statement saying the requirement to renew with a photo license. Over 21 years old you had the option to get a paper license when you had to renew. Many people did that since it didn’t require a trip to DMV. I know I had one until at least 2000. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2025, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-real-id-problem/1017664/176 "2025-05-28T16:50:13Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > I post that as an example of how casual people used to be about names, and for the fact that the state was perfectly content to record data it knew to be false on an official certificate. As anyone who has looked into their genealogy can attest. I started to look into the family when a cousin let us know that he found out our name was made up. Our grandfather changed his name from a very Polish first and last name to an English first name and very common German last name. It happened sometime around 1915. Nothing official he just started going by that name and no one seemed to care. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2025, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-real-id-problem/1017664/177 "2025-05-28T16:53:06Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > it’s sort of standard in the US for a new birth certificate (with the names of the adoptive parents and possibly a new name) to be issued and the original one sealed in the case of any adoption , whether by a stepparent or unrelated people. It’s only fairly recently that it’s been possible for a person to even get a copy of the original. Really? I always thought a birth certificate was supposed to be an accurate record of a birth, but I guess if it’s standard practice to officially falsify data, then that’s just a thing we do, and no problem for Real ID if they accept amended birth certificates as proof of citizenship. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2025, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-real-id-problem/1017664/178 "2025-05-29T00:23:59Z")
I actually had to deal with just that issue for a client. Born overseas, adopted in the US 60 years ago, issued a new birth certificate naming his adoptive parents as parents “by adoption” and under his new adoptive surname, but still showing his place of birth as overseas (so, no proof of US citizenship). First I had to figure out if he was even legally in the US (he was, got an immigrant visa as an infant) then I had to figure out if his adoptive parents (who are long dead, but who I despise, because they “un-adopted” him when he was 7 and threw him in an orphanage in the US) made him a citizen before they threw him out with the bathwater (they didn’t, and neither did anyone else). So to renew his _green card_ for the first time in 60 years, we had to match his immigration records (under his real birth name) to his legal name on his birth certificate (and his non-REAL ID compliance driver’s license), which meant we had to get the court to unseal the record of adoption. Fortunately, the state (New Jersey) had a process that allowed the adopted vict… I mean _child_ to obtain the necessary records. Otherwise, I do believe my client would have been SOL. Because if you can’t prove you’re the person who was issued the visa and a green card, you can’t very well _renew_ your green card. But god I hate those parents. If I’m ever in New Jersey… well, this is FQ, so I won’t say what I might do to or on their graves. ---
**Author:** ![LurkMeister](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3da27b/32.png) [@LurkMeister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkMeister)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2025, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-real-id-problem/1017664/179 "2025-05-29T16:49:40Z")
Last year I had to get a certified copy of my birth certificate in order to get a passport. I had gotten a RealID shortly after they were being offered, but apparently the birth certificate I was able to use to get it was a “short form” which did not have the necessary information needed for a passport. Since I had had my name legally changed, I also had to provide a certified copy of the court order. When I was at the county clerk’s office getting the birth certificate it was pointed out that on the court order my birth name used only my middle initial instead of my full middle name, which technically could invalidate it as proper proof of the name change. I was given information on how to get the court order corrected, which involved jumping through all kinds of hoops. Fortunately the passport office did not question it, and considering the complication of me no longer being local to where I had had the name change, I haven’t tried to get the court order “corrected”. Hopefully this won’t be a problem in the future. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2025, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-real-id-problem/1017664/180 "2025-06-07T17:19:20Z")
And the good news just doesn’t stop. Not only have I yet to receive a reply from Guam about my birth certificate (which I applied for near the end of April), but now I have found out that to visit the Naval vessels in town for the Portland summer festival I will need either a Real ID or a valid and up to date passport. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-real-id-problem/1017664.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-real-id-problem/1017664.md?page=10)