Yes I know that. And Cartooniverse has started a long thread bemoaning all the “issues” that he imagines he will have even though he already has everything he needs to get a Real ID today. Czarcasm, on the other hand, has actual problems to sort out.
Yes, Czarcasm has neither a birth certificate nor a passport, and the authorities are ignoring his request for a copy of the birth certificate. That’s an incredibly shitty position to be in.
I had an annoying list of problems to get real ID (no proof of SSN, no appropriate proof of address, and mismatched names every which way) but i had a clear path to get it. i applied for a new SSN card, which arrived. I asked that some if my bills be sent in paper copies instead of email. And i hoped that the mismatched names wouldn’t be too much trouble. And… Despite having 4 names of my passport, 3 on most of my documents, and two names plus an initial on my driver’s license, (and a totally different name on my birth certificate) the name thing was only a minor annoyance. Turns out they don’t really care about middle names. The official issuing the real id said, “i have to use the name on your passport” and I said, “okay”, and that was that.
(I never took out my birth certificate with the different name. I had a passport.)
So while I’m sympathetic with @Cartooniverse’s concern, I’m pretty sure they don’t actually have a problem, and can just bring their existing documents and walk away with a promise of a real ID coming in the mail.
Czarcasm ? I don’t even know what he can do next. Real ID rules suck. And they suck worse for some people than for others.
Although even if @Czarcasm doesn’t have a birth certificate or passport, I would think it’s worthwhile to go to the licensing authority (DMV, BMV or whatever it is in that state) with what they do have and see how far they get. You might be surprised that you have enough.
I’d be pleasantly surprised if that worked. The real id rules were written to exclude people. “Oh, noes, we can’t have furriners with ID.”
The passport rules were written to enable qualified people to get a passport, and I’m completely serious in suggesting that it’s probably an easier “first” ID to get. And it would enable later getting a “real ID”.
Sure, try for the passport. But I recommend just trying.
@Czarcasm
A passport is easier because more/different forms of evidence are allowed- if a person doesn’t have any ID , they can have a witness swear to their identity. There are acceptable documents to prove citizenship if no birth certificate filed within a year of birth is available( hospital birth certificate , baptismal certificate, census records etc) . You’re really supposed to have a letter saying there is no birth certificate to use those documents - but sometimes bureaucrats take pity and maybe someone at State can help you get the birth certificate/letter of no record from Guam.
Also, while I was looking for the list of those secondary documents , I came across a number of statements saying that people born in Guam after December 23 1952 would not have a Consular Report of Birth Abroad filed - which suggests to me that people born before that date might have had a CRBA filed. That’s as good as a birth certificate. It’s something like $50 to request a copy if one was filed.
Yes, the passport rules were made many years ago, when it was common for people to have imperfect documentation. And they really are designed to help eligible people get the document, rather than to prevent people from getting it.
I think i said above that i once “swore or affirmed” the identity of my boss, who had no government issued photo id, just a birth certificate and, really, nothing else. He got the passport.
Thank you. I had seen @Cartooniverse’s thread, but my search for it while writing my last post failed because he went for a poetic title, not a descriptive title.
Sorry to muddy your waters.
@Czarcasm, would it be worth seeing if the Oregonian wanted to do a story about this? Man loses everything in fire, can’t get birth certificate replaced, needs documentation to get Real ID and passport, representatives don’t help?
I might also suggest the Eugene Weekly—wrong part of the state, but still in Oregon, and more likely to cover the story.
There’s a newish paper in Eugene, too. I don’t remember the name. Or Willamette Week?
I can personally testify that it HAS been a problem for many, many people in Indiana. Even if it hasn’t been for you, or other people in your state.
That said - when the problem arose I was given multiple ways to resolve the issue. I wasn’t happy with any of them, but I picked the least odious to me and sorted things out. Took me six months, some time, and some money but it’s done now.
I’ve never been sure exactly how your problem came about, but as best as I remember it , it wasn’t a situation where 1) every single piece of your documentation had the same name except your birth certificate which had an additional middle name that wasn’t on your passport, social security card and driver’s license and 2) you were able to get the license ID/without using the birth certificate at all. Which is the “issue” I’m talking about - one where my birth certificate says "Doreen Anne Lastname and my current driver’s license, passport and Social Security card say “Doreen A. Lastname” and I don’t need to bring my birth certificate to the driver’s license issuing agency because the passport, current drivers license and social securiy number are sufficient proof of age, identity and lawful status.
These are the current Indiana requirements
ONE document proving your identity is required.
Acceptable documents you can use to prove your identity include:
- United States birth certificate. Must be an original or certified copy filed with a U.S. state or territory office of vital statistics or equivalent agency in your state of birth. Puerto Rican-born citizens must provide a birth certificate issued on or after July 1, 2010.
- Unexpired United States passport.
- Foreign passport with a visa and I-94 form.
- Consular Report of Birth Abroad. The Consular Report of Birth Abroad is only issued to citizens that are under 18 years of age.
Those same documents can be used to prove lawful status.in fact the website says
In most cases, the document presented to prove your identity will also prove your lawful status in the United States.
So if you have a passport, there is no need to provide the birth certificate to get a REAL ID compliant document. I suppose it’s possible that there are one or two states that insists on a birth certificate (although any problems are more likely to be becase of a misinformed clerk) But you don’t even need to get a REAL ID compliant document if you have a passport - a passport is itself sufficient for all the same purposes as a REAL ID for boarding domestic flights and entering Federal buildings.
- Birth certificate had name at birth (duh)
- Named changed when I married.
- Went to get RealID
- State of Indiana said they had THREE different versions of my name (based on appearance I’m guessing typos in databases) and instead of using common sense mashed ALL those names together, giving me FIVE names instead of the TWO I’d been using since forever.
This had the result that the ID I’d use to get into an airport (RealID) had a different name than the document I’d use to legally fly an airplane (my Federal-issued pilot’s license). So my RealID that Indiana insisted was my real, true legal name matched no other ID document I’d ever had in my life.
All of which made me really wish I’d kept my passport updated and current but in the 1990’s I was short on money, travel to Canada didn’t require a passport (the only foreign nation I’ve visited even semi-regularly or anticipated going to), and I didn’t see a reason to do so. So no “unexpired passport” as an alternative. 'Cause I’m not psychic and didn’t realize I’d need the damn thing 25-30 years later.
I eventually decided on a “name change” (from my viewpoint, it was correcting a mistake) so going forward I could use the name I’d been using for over 30 years as my true, legal name without a goddamned argument.
As a bonus, the only document I had to change was my RealId, not all the others. Which would have been a truly big pain in the ass what with the Feds having one name (consistent across all agencies), the state in which I was married and lived 15 years having that same name, all my bills, etc. etc.
There was a thread where I discussed this when it was happening with a link to a news article about how this was happening to a lot of people in Indiana, mostly women but also some men, adoptees of both genders, and so forth. A lot had to do with very strict interpretation of rules and requirements. Apparently the DMV staff who had to be front-line folks dealing with this weren’t happy, either, but they could see have effing stupid a lot of it was but their hands were tied, they weren’t the ones making the rules. Oh, no - those men (they were all men) didn’t have to deal with the consequences of their decisions, made with the assumption that very few people changed their names (never mind probably all of their wives had when they married).
Anyhow, I try not to get pissed off when discussing it these days but I’m still a little bit angry about the inconvenience and stupidity of it all.
I was asking my dad today about the level of proof for his Real ID.
Colorado gave it to him automatically when his licence renewed. He got his Colorado licence with his last state’s DL, which in turn was based on the DL from his birth state, which he acquired by asserting his identity (=filing out the form) with no proof of anything whatsoever in the mid 1950s.
So HIS RealID is ultimately based on nothing at all.
Great system!
I am also in Colorado, and I can confirm this story. When I renewed it in 2018 or 2023 I received a Real ID compliant license. All I needed to renew it was my old license. I renewed online.
I received my original Colorado DL by turning in my Texas DL. I received my Texas DL when I was 16 by passing a driving test. I have no memory of what form of ID might have been required to get the license or learner’s permit that preceded the license.
At first I was excited and thought the solution for the OP might be moving to Colorado based on the document requirements page, because it appears the only thing required to get a Colorado DL is a valid (or recently expired) out of state DL. Looking at the PDF of the requirement shows that you also need a birth certificate or consular report of birth abroad.
I’m not sure if that is a regular versus Real ID difference, or just incomplete information on the web page.
I really hope that all the OP’s problems are just typical government slowness, and that one day a surprise letter will arrive containing the necessary documents.
That first link says
Unexpired ENHANCED out-of-state driver license/ID
card (Available only from MI, NY, MN, WA, VT) in the “Bring one of the following” section, along with a passport or passport card, just like the PDF. Other out of state licenses are in the "pick one from column A and one from Column B section.
I also want to point out that “REAL ID” documentation doesn’t necessarily have to be provided all at once - NYS started requiring Social Security numbers for driver’s licenses and non-driver’s ID in 1995 so maybe I didn’t need to provide it again to get a REAL ID. Maybe I didn’t need to provide proof of my birthdate again when I got an enhanced license around 2018, since I had provided that when I first got my license. I might remember if I had to bring a whole new set of documents when I got an enhanced license - but all I actually remember is I had to go to DMV in person
Not actually necessary. I just went to my bank’s website and downloaded and printed a copy of an account statement, which is identical to what they would send in the mail. I could have done the same with my electric or gas bill but a bank statement is the only thing with both my and Mrs. Martian’s name on it, utility bills are in my name only. DMV (Arizona) accepted it without comment.
I did the same when I got my Real ID in Illinois earlier this year, but this, too, may be a YMMV situation, depending on your state, and the clerk in question.
Confession: i did that, too, for one of my documents. But i also have a color laser printer at home, and tri-folded it so it looked like it came in the mail. And i felt slightly silly doing that, until i spoke with a friend who hadn’t, and her “documentation of residence” was rejected because it was a copy, and the regulations clearly say only originals are acceptable. She came back with the same piece of paper, now trifolded and placed in an envelope she’d printed herself. And then it was accepted.
Which points out the absurdity of the regulations. But there you have it.