# Possible rift between Mossad and Netanyahu on Iran negotiations -- who is right? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 22, 2015, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-rift-between-mossad-and-netanyahu-on-iran-negotiations-who-is-right/710564 "2015-01-22T12:29:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2015, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-rift-between-mossad-and-netanyahu-on-iran-negotiations-who-is-right/710564/21 "2015-01-22T22:01:06Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > . . . It’s all coming clear now . . . OMG! Obama’s not an al-Qaeda sleeper agent, he’s **a Mossad sleeper agent!** :eek: All that stuff about him being a Kenyan Muslim has just been his cover identity. “Barack Hussein Obama” is really Billy Bob Tucker from Billings, Montana. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2015, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-rift-between-mossad-and-netanyahu-on-iran-negotiations-who-is-right/710564/22 "2015-01-22T23:48:45Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > All that stuff about him being a Kenyan Muslim has just been his cover identity. “Barack Hussein Obama” is really Billy Bob Tucker from Billings, Montana. Not Baruch Hosea Baum from Brooklyn?! ---
**Author:** ![Donald\_Rump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Donald\_Rump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donald_Rump)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2015, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-rift-between-mossad-and-netanyahu-on-iran-negotiations-who-is-right/710564/23 "2015-01-23T00:07:39Z")
Although we don’t know, the people actually DOING the talking (via their delegates, anyway) are pretty damn adamant that threatening new sanctions will derail the talks, namely, Obama and David Cameron. I’ll trust their judgment on the matter over Joe Congressman standing on the sidelines, burnishing his hawkish bona fides for domestic consumption. Congress will be totally unaccountable either way; if the sanctions bill passes and the Iranians walk away, Congress will spin it as evidence the Iranians were unserious all along, and confirmation that Obama is naive to boot. This is all so transparently political. Good for Obama for not blinking. God help us if Romney had won the election. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2015, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-rift-between-mossad-and-netanyahu-on-iran-negotiations-who-is-right/710564/24 "2015-01-23T00:14:51Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Plus, it’s having the horrible side-effect of alienating many U.S. liberals. Support for Israel used to be a liberal value also, but the conservative highjacking of it has turned away many who formerly were supporters. I find this extremely depressing, as I’m a liberal and still have strong personal support for Israel. I don’t think it’s alienating US liberals from Israel – just from Netanyahu, and from the ‘endless war’ advocacy. War with Iran, or a premature end to the negotiations, makes Israel weaker (IMO), not stronger. Obama’s policies strengthen Israel’s future. They may weaken Netanyahu, but that doesn’t worry me in the slightest. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2015, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-rift-between-mossad-and-netanyahu-on-iran-negotiations-who-is-right/710564/25 "2015-01-23T00:17:09Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I don’t think it’s alienating US liberals from Israel – just from Netanyahu, and from the ‘endless war’ advocacy. War with Iran, or a premature end to the negotiations, makes Israel weaker (IMO), not stronger. Obama’s policies strengthen Israel’s future. They may weaken Netanyahu, but that doesn’t worry me in the slightest. All true. When **are** the Israelis going to wise up and give Likud the boot?! ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2015, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-rift-between-mossad-and-netanyahu-on-iran-negotiations-who-is-right/710564/26 "2015-01-23T01:48:01Z")
An alternative school of thought says the whole story is not true and was made up by the Obama administration. Purpose: to stick it to Bibi, who Obama dislikes in any event but is particularly peeved at just now for accepting an invitation from Boehner that bypassed him. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2015, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-rift-between-mossad-and-netanyahu-on-iran-negotiations-who-is-right/710564/27 "2015-01-23T01:49:47Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > An alternative school of thought says the whole story is not true and was made up by the Obama administration. Purpose: to stick it to Bibi, who Obama dislikes in any event but is particularly peeved at just now for accepting an invitation from Boehner that bypassed him. Are you the only student in this school? ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2015, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-rift-between-mossad-and-netanyahu-on-iran-negotiations-who-is-right/710564/28 "2015-01-23T01:53:30Z")
[No.](http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Politics-And-Diplomacy/Israel-says-leaked-report-of-Netanyahu-Mossad-rift-on-Iran-sanctions-is-Obamas-revenge-388554) ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2015, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-rift-between-mossad-and-netanyahu-on-iran-negotiations-who-is-right/710564/29 "2015-01-23T02:26:04Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > The story is [here](http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-01-22/netanyahu-mossad-split-divides-u-s-congress-on-iran-sanctions). According to the article, Israel is telling different things to the US regarding possible future sanctions against Iran – Netanyahu wants the US Congress to put through a bill that would automatically install new sanctions on Iran if current negotiations fail, while the Mossad is telling the US that such a bill would torpedo negotiations altogether. > > Assuming the story is true, who is right? I lean towards the Mossad’s view, and think that some sort of pre-institution of sanctions could tank negotiations before they even get going. The story is a lie, put out by a peeved White House. You are not used yet to White House lying all the time, are you? > **[Fury in Israel Over Obama's Mossad 'Lies'](http://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/190364)** > > Senior Israeli says 'friends don't act like this' after Mossad Head denies US claim that he opposed Iran sanctions in talk with senators. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2015, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-rift-between-mossad-and-netanyahu-on-iran-negotiations-who-is-right/710564/30 "2015-01-23T03:22:01Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I don’t think it’s alienating US liberals from Israel – just from Netanyahu . . . I hope you’re right, but it doesn’t seem that way. I’ve seen too many people moving away from support of Israel, and not just away from support of Netanyahu’s party. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2015, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-rift-between-mossad-and-netanyahu-on-iran-negotiations-who-is-right/710564/31 "2015-01-23T12:20:40Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > The story is a lie, put out by a peeved White House. You are not used yet to White House lying all the time, are you? > > [http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/190364#.VMF\_IYfmphE](http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/190364#.VMF_IYfmphE) So an Israeli source disputes the WH claim. You are aware that Netanyahu and his folks lie sometimes, right? I’m not sure who’s lying. Maybe both are. In any case, I think Bibi’s course is far, far more dangerous to the future of both the US and Israel than the WH’s course. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2015, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-rift-between-mossad-and-netanyahu-on-iran-negotiations-who-is-right/710564/32 "2015-01-23T12:52:01Z")
Some more reports: [here](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2922069/Now-MOSSAD-weighs-Iran-sanctions-row-secret-meeting-senators-Israeli-spy-chief-warned-throwing-grenade-nuclear-talks.html) and [here](http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Politics-And-Diplomacy/Israel-says-leaked-report-of-Netanyahu-Mossad-rift-on-Iran-sanctions-is-Obamas-revenge-388554). The Mossad admits the meeting between Mossad and Kerry/Senators happened, and that the “grenade” statement that Kerry related was actually said, but the Mossad says Kerry is misinterpreting/misstating their intentions. And a Likud official “told Army Radio that the invite extended to Netanyahu was an attempt by the Republicans to embarrass President Barack Obama”. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2015, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-rift-between-mossad-and-netanyahu-on-iran-negotiations-who-is-right/710564/33 "2015-01-23T14:19:36Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > So an Israeli source disputes the WH claim. You are aware that Netanyahu and his folks lie sometimes, right? Let’s see. WH (which, AFAIK, had no representative at the meeting) says that the Mossad guy said something. The Mossad guy says he didn’t. The minutes of the meeting agree with the Mossad guy’s version. But you’re “not sure who’s lying”. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2015, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-rift-between-mossad-and-netanyahu-on-iran-negotiations-who-is-right/710564/34 "2015-01-23T14:20:59Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Let’s see. WH (which, AFAIK, had no representative at the meeting) says that the Mossad guy said something. The Mossad guy says he didn’t. The minutes of the meeting agree with the Mossad guy’s version. But you’re “not sure who’s lying”. No, the Mossad guy admits he said what Kerry related, he just says Kerry misinterpreted/misstated the intentions. And “Israeli source says the minutes of the meeting agree” doesn’t mean the minutes agree – it means that the Israeli source says the minutes agree. If you think the minutes of the meeting dispute what Kerry said, then you’ll have to link to those minutes (good luck!). ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2015, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-rift-between-mossad-and-netanyahu-on-iran-negotiations-who-is-right/710564/35 "2015-01-23T14:22:58Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > No, the Mossad guy admits he said what Kerry related, he just says Kerry misinterpreted/misstated the intentions. Kerry was not there. The Mossad guy was. Who do you think knows better what he said? This is an artificial tempest, created by a pouting White House as revenge for the perceived slight. And it punctuates yet another low in this administration’s treatment of Israel. Thank God for term limits. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2015, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-rift-between-mossad-and-netanyahu-on-iran-negotiations-who-is-right/710564/36 "2015-01-23T14:24:19Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Kerry was not there. The Mossad guy was. Who do you think knows better what he said? Huh? The meeting (by Pardo) was with Kerry. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2015, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-rift-between-mossad-and-netanyahu-on-iran-negotiations-who-is-right/710564/37 "2015-01-23T14:25:49Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Huh? The meeting (by Pardo) was with Kerry. I missed that there were two meetings. One with the Senators, another with Kerry. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2015, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-rift-between-mossad-and-netanyahu-on-iran-negotiations-who-is-right/710564/38 "2015-01-23T14:27:34Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > This is an artificial tempest, created by a pouting White House as revenge for the perceived slight. Or created by Netanyahu for revenge against Obama and to help him politically in the upcoming elections. > [@](#): > > And it punctuates yet another low in this administration’s treatment of Israel. Thank God for term limits. LOL. Occasionally disagreeing on substantive issues is not mistreatment. It’s possible Kerry and the WH are lying, and it’s possible Netanyahu’s folks and the “Israeli source” are lying. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2015, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-rift-between-mossad-and-netanyahu-on-iran-negotiations-who-is-right/710564/39 "2015-01-23T14:39:53Z")
ISTM that there are two separate factual issues here. 1) What was the motivation for whoever leaked this claim? and 2) Was that leak accurate? The motivation could be related to the Bibi congressional invite political matter but the story could still be true anyway. Or not. Regarding the invite, if you ask me, Bibi is a fool to show up Obama and alienate him even further, for little apparent purpose. I’m not any sort of expert on Israeli election maneuvering and perhaps it helps with his electorate - though if I was an Israeli voter who supported his policies I would still think it’s irresponsible and counterproductive - but at best he’s undercutting his country for political gain. (I guess that makes him a “politician”.) ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2015, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-rift-between-mossad-and-netanyahu-on-iran-negotiations-who-is-right/710564/40 "2015-01-23T14:44:24Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > ISTM that there are two separate factual issues here. 1) What was the motivation for whoever leaked this claim? and 2) Was that leak accurate? The motivation could be related to the Bibi congressional invite political matter but the story could still be true anyway. Or not. > > Regarding the invite, if you ask me, Bibi is a fool to show up Obama and alienate him even further, for little apparent purpose. I’m not any sort of expert on Israeli election maneuvering and perhaps it helps with his electorate - though if I was an Israeli voter who supported his policies I would still think it’s irresponsible and counterproductive - but at best he’s undercutting his country for political gain. (I guess that makes him a “politician”.) He is to speak to Congress on Iran. You don’t seem to understand, but Iranian nuclear program is a big issue to Israel and to Netanyahu, and Obama’s wishy-washy approach to it is a big worry. So if the talk is to strengthen US (and I mean Congress, Obama is lost cause) opposition to Iran’s nuclear ambitions it is worth the perceived slight to Obama administration, which is among the most hostile ever to Israel anyway. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-rift-between-mossad-and-netanyahu-on-iran-negotiations-who-is-right/710564.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-rift-between-mossad-and-netanyahu-on-iran-negotiations-who-is-right/710564.md?page=3)