# Possible to get a transcript of the 1962 S.C. deliberations on flying the confederate flag? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 24, 2015, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-to-get-a-transcript-of-the-1962-s-c-deliberations-on-flying-the-confederate-flag/723397 "2015-06-24T21:05:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![CC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f1d935/32.png) [@CC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CC)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-to-get-a-transcript-of-the-1962-s-c-deliberations-on-flying-the-confederate-flag/723397/1 "2015-06-24T21:05:14Z")
I understand that the confederate flag didn’t fly over the S.C. capitol until a law 1n 1962 determined that it should. Is it possible to find transcripts of the discussions leading up to that decision? Are the procedings on the floor of state houses public documents? How would I find out what those “gentlemen” had to say about that flag at that time? ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-to-get-a-transcript-of-the-1962-s-c-deliberations-on-flying-the-confederate-flag/723397/2 "2015-06-24T22:35:25Z")
proceedings should be public. But you might need to go to SC to get a copy . they might have some on the web but probably not that far back. ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-to-get-a-transcript-of-the-1962-s-c-deliberations-on-flying-the-confederate-flag/723397/3 "2015-06-24T23:19:14Z")
According to a current article in [Time Magazine](http://time.com/3930464/south-carolina-confederate-flag-1962/#3930464/south-carolina-confederate-flag-1962/), the decision was made using a concurrent resolution, which didn’t involve much debate. > [@](#): > > The decision in South Carolina didn’t attract much attention at the time. Civil-rights activists were more concerned with securing voting rights and ending legal segregation than a flag, and the state legislature relied on a concurrent resolution, which is typically reserved for uncontroversial measures, to order the flag placed atop the statehouse. Because concurrent resolutions don’t require much debate, there’s little record of what arguments were used in favor of flying the flag. ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-to-get-a-transcript-of-the-1962-s-c-deliberations-on-flying-the-confederate-flag/723397/4 "2015-06-25T14:35:54Z")
Also concurrent resolutions don’t have the force of law, it’s more like ‘this is what we think.’ I haven’t read the article, but my recollection was that the resolution allowed the predecessor organization to the Budget and Control Board to raise the flag [del]as a big FU to the Gummint[/del] as a memorial to the Civil War for one year. But after the year passed, it was just left up there. Some years ago, the then-seated SC Attorney General, who was running for governor, indicated that he thought that since the Budget and Control Board (technically, the Office of Sinking Funds) had raised it, that they could lower it! This was before the law was passed that forbade modifying state monuments (or however it was worded). ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-to-get-a-transcript-of-the-1962-s-c-deliberations-on-flying-the-confederate-flag/723397/5 "2015-06-25T17:07:38Z")
> [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](#): > > Also concurrent resolutions don’t have the force of law, it’s more like ‘this is what we think.’ > > I haven’t read the article, but my recollection was that the resolution allowed the predecessor organization to the Budget and Control Board to raise the flag [del]as a big FU to the Gummint[/del] as a memorial to the Civil War for one year. But after the year passed, it was just left up there. Actually, the resolution itself has no ending date. But several of the legislators who were present at the time later argued for the flag to be removed, saying that their original intent was to fly the flag during the Civil War centennial and have it removed in 1965 when the centennial ended. Here’s the text of the resolution: > [@](#): > > Be it resolved by the House of Representatives, the Senate concurring: That the Director of the Division of > Sinking Funds and Property is hereby requested to have the Confederate Flag flown on the flagpole on top of the State House. I find it interesting that there are no “whereas” clauses in the resolution that would explain its purpose. In San Francisco, even a street closure resolution will have a bunch of clauses explaining its purpose. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-to-get-a-transcript-of-the-1962-s-c-deliberations-on-flying-the-confederate-flag/723397/6 "2015-06-25T17:20:35Z")
> [@CC](#): > > I understand that the confederate flag didn’t fly over the S.C. capitol until a law 1n 1962 determined that it should. Is it possible to find transcripts of the discussions leading up to that decision? Are the procedings on the floor of state houses public documents? How would I find out what those “gentlemen” had to say about that flag at that time? Whatever was done then is no longer current. There was a more recent (law, I think) action that moved the flag from flying over the capitol to a separate flagpole off to the side, but still on the grounds and still prominent. Apparently the compromise allowing this was an agreement that it would take an extraordinary majority of both houses to remove it or even lower it for some occasions. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-to-get-a-transcript-of-the-1962-s-c-deliberations-on-flying-the-confederate-flag/723397/7 "2015-06-25T17:56:50Z")
I was reading a lot of stuff about it in the papers from the time period yesterday - yeah, they just put a little note in about them putting it up for the anniversary. What’s more interesting is that for years previously there weren’t _any_ flags on top of the State House and they were considering taking the flagpole down because people felt it was ugly and somebody had to go up a bunch of rickety ladders (one of which broke which is why they quit) and out a hatch in the dome roof twice a day to put them up and take them down! At the time, the fire marshal had actually declared the State House attic including the dome “dangerous”, meaning that until they put sprinklers in that year if it had caught fire he would not send firefighters in. There was also quite a bit about a trash pile on the Assembly Street side of the building. Evidently the place was a hell of a dump then. (Obviously they must have updated the flag raising and lowering mechanism - the articles I read about it were in February, the flag went up in April.) ETA - if anybody is interested, The State is digitized for that time period in South Carolina Historical Newspapers, which is a Newsbank product. Some major universities might have access to it, or within the state of SC if you have a State Library card you can access it online, or through your county library if they subscribe. Richland does, obviously. ---
**Author:** ![CC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f1d935/32.png) [@CC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CC)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-to-get-a-transcript-of-the-1962-s-c-deliberations-on-flying-the-confederate-flag/723397/8 "2015-06-25T17:57:42Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Whatever was done then is no longer current. There was a more recent (law, I think) action that moved the flag from flying over the capitol to a separate flagpole off to the side, but still on the grounds and still prominent. Apparently the compromise allowing this was an agreement that it would take an extraordinary majority of both houses to remove it or even lower it for some occasions. I believe that whatever route was taken, the motivation for at least some of those who voted on its placement - on one flagpole or another - was an attempt to counteract the prevailing civil rights initiatives becoming prominent in the U.S. at that time. I am curious as to the language used to justify or rationalize the move. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-to-get-a-transcript-of-the-1962-s-c-deliberations-on-flying-the-confederate-flag/723397/9 "2015-06-25T18:16:36Z")
Isn’t it quite rare for state legislative proceedings to include the actual debates? ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-to-get-a-transcript-of-the-1962-s-c-deliberations-on-flying-the-confederate-flag/723397/10 "2015-06-25T22:44:36Z")
Did people object to moving the Fort Moultrie Flag into 2nd class status? ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Downtown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Mr\_Downtown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Downtown)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-to-get-a-transcript-of-the-1962-s-c-deliberations-on-flying-the-confederate-flag/723397/11 "2015-06-26T03:46:53Z")
I wonder how and why “the Confederate flag” of the resolution came to mean the Battle Flag, rather than the actual flag of the Confederacy. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-to-get-a-transcript-of-the-1962-s-c-deliberations-on-flying-the-confederate-flag/723397/12 "2015-06-26T12:47:32Z")
Not South Carolina, but here’s a detailed study about how the Confederate flag came into use in Georgia in the 1950’s, as part of a general response to civil rights and _Brown v Board of Education_. The study was prepared by the Georgia State Senate Research Office: [The State Flag of Georgia: The 1956 Change In Its Historical Context](https://web.archive.org/web/20141204200939/http://www.senate.ga.gov/sro/Documents/StudyCommRpts/00StateFlag.pdf) ---
**Author:** ![Tzigone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Tzigone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tzigone)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-to-get-a-transcript-of-the-1962-s-c-deliberations-on-flying-the-confederate-flag/723397/13 "2015-06-26T12:48:54Z")
> [@Mr\_Downtown](#): > > I wonder how and why “the Confederate flag” of the resolution came to mean the Battle Flag, rather than the actual flag of the Confederacy. Probably because the Army of Northern Virginia was their pride and joy - Lee’s the legend after all. What surprised me was that, short-lived as it was, the Confederacy had [three different flags](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America). As you can see, they were incorporating the battle flag into the national flag even back then. ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-to-get-a-transcript-of-the-1962-s-c-deliberations-on-flying-the-confederate-flag/723397/14 "2015-06-26T12:51:53Z")
And from a strictly aesthetic point of view, it was the best looking of the various Confederate flags, and certainly more appealing than [the last flag that flew over the Confederacy.](https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:White_Flag.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2015, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-to-get-a-transcript-of-the-1962-s-c-deliberations-on-flying-the-confederate-flag/723397/15 "2015-06-27T13:54:44Z")
> [@CC](#): > > I understand that the confederate flag didn’t fly over the S.C. capitol until a law 1n 1962 determined that it should. This is not quite correct. Gov. Hollings had constituted a commission to plan the “Confederate War Centennial.” The head of the commission was a state legislator, John May, and he [requested](http://www.scpronet.com/point/9909/p04.html) that the flag be raised for the opening ceremonies on April 11, 1861 (the anniversary of the firing on Fort Sumter). It remained in place and was still flying in 1962, when the continuing resolution was passed. ---
**Author:** ![CC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f1d935/32.png) [@CC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CC)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2015, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-to-get-a-transcript-of-the-1962-s-c-deliberations-on-flying-the-confederate-flag/723397/16 "2015-06-27T15:00:22Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > …that the flag be raised for the opening ceremonies on April 11, 1861 (the anniversary of the firing on Fort Sumter)… Thanks for the clarification, but shouldn’t that read 1961? ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2015, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/possible-to-get-a-transcript-of-the-1962-s-c-deliberations-on-flying-the-confederate-flag/723397/17 "2015-06-28T06:01:20Z")
:smack: