# Post-COVID lungs worse than the worst smokers' lungs, surgeon says **URL:** \ **Category:** The Quarantine Zone\ **Tags:** covid-quarantine\ **Created:** [January 17, 2021, 9:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-covid-lungs-worse-than-the-worst-smokers-lungs-surgeon-says/930719 "2021-01-17T09:10:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2021, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-covid-lungs-worse-than-the-worst-smokers-lungs-surgeon-says/930719/21 "2021-01-17T11:37:34Z")
We read the same article. Reporters being bad at science (including medical reporting) is an age-old problem and nothing new. Sensationalizing the news is likewise nothing new. I provided links that the permanent lung damage has been seen. The question is just how prevalent and serious that is? We have seen the stats on deaths from COVID. Added to that risk is this risk of permanent scarring of the lungs. How serious of a risk that is seems open to question but it is there, and it adds to the overall risk associated with getting COVID and should not be ignored. This Texas doctor says she is seeing it a lot. Take that FWIW to you. How serious this lingering issue is remains to be seen. ---
**Author:** ![knobturner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/96bed5/32.png) [@knobturner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/knobturner)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2021, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-covid-lungs-worse-than-the-worst-smokers-lungs-surgeon-says/930719/22 "2021-01-17T13:08:11Z")
I work in an ICU at medium sized hospital. I can recall several occasions of asymtomatic preop patients found with low oxygen levels and severe viral pneumonia on chest X-ray. A trauma surgeon does X-rays and CT scans all day and all night. Finding an atypical viral pneumonia on an asymptomatic patient is not rare. As for damage being permanent, we only have about 10 months of data, so we don’t know. My hunch is yes, your life will be shorter and harder. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2021, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-covid-lungs-worse-than-the-worst-smokers-lungs-surgeon-says/930719/23 "2021-01-17T13:10:57Z")
> [@knobturner](#): > > I can recall several occasions of asymtomatic preop patients found with low oxygen levels and severe viral pneumonia on chest X-ray. Real question: How can someone have “severe viral pneumonia” and not have symptoms? ---
**Author:** ![knobturner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/96bed5/32.png) [@knobturner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/knobturner)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2021, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-covid-lungs-worse-than-the-worst-smokers-lungs-surgeon-says/930719/24 "2021-01-17T13:26:58Z")
We don’t know. Patients present with with headaches or GI symptoms, breathing normally and comfortably, and are found to have critically dangerous low oxygen levels. All other vital signs are often normal. We call it happy hypoxia. When you look at their blood gasses, their CO2 levels are normal, meaning that the lungs are ventilating, but not oxygenating blood to a level compatible with life. Then you see their X-ray and ask yourself How is this guy even alive right now. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2021, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-covid-lungs-worse-than-the-worst-smokers-lungs-surgeon-says/930719/25 "2021-01-17T13:28:32Z")
Because if you aren’t an athlete you don’t actually need all of your lung capacity? I don’t think this is new news. I think we’ve been hearing about asymptomatic people with serious lung damage from close to the start of the epidemic. I’m sure i have. And it’s way too early to know how long it lasts. And there don’t seem to have been a lot of studies into how common it is. ---
**Author:** ![misterW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f1d935/32.png) [@misterW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/misterW)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2021, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-covid-lungs-worse-than-the-worst-smokers-lungs-surgeon-says/930719/26 "2021-01-17T13:34:05Z")
That makes sense, but there are also many athletes who have had mild or asymptomatic cases. How are they able to resume their profession without noticing anything wrong? 7 out of 10 of them should have severe lung damage. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2021, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-covid-lungs-worse-than-the-worst-smokers-lungs-surgeon-says/930719/27 "2021-01-17T14:57:42Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > And it’s way too early to know how long it lasts. I think scarring lasts. It is physical damage to the tissue. Maybe it repairs over time…I do not know but it will be something that lingers. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2021, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-covid-lungs-worse-than-the-worst-smokers-lungs-surgeon-says/930719/28 "2021-01-17T15:00:31Z")
> [@misterW](#): > > The article essentially IS saying that. 70-80% is pretty close to all. No, it isn’t. No, it is not. ---
**Author:** ![chela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chela/32/21582_2.png) [@chela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chela)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2021, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-covid-lungs-worse-than-the-worst-smokers-lungs-surgeon-says/930719/29 "2021-01-17T15:09:18Z")
A family member works in radiology as an RN. She is seeing scarring in lungs after covid which she says may be permanent. I know a 26 yo male otherwise healthy got covid, has scarring in lungs needs an inhaler. It’s real scary. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2021, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-covid-lungs-worse-than-the-worst-smokers-lungs-surgeon-says/930719/30 "2021-01-17T15:15:08Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > > [@puzzlegal](#): > > > > And it’s way too early to know how long it lasts. > > I think scarring lasts. It is physical damage to the tissue. Maybe it repairs over time…I do not know but it will be something that lingers. I have/had lots of scars that have faded over time. I used to have a vivid v-shaped scar between two fingers at the top of my palm, where a linoleum cutting tool slipped and imbedded itself in me in elementary school. I had to look carefully, in good light, to see it today. I had a scar on my knee from removing a giant splinter that is completely gone. There’s a scar on one of my fingers from slicing off the tip about ten years back that is significantly smaller than it was three years ago. ---
**Author:** ![FigNorton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fignorton/32/5619_2.png) [@FigNorton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FigNorton)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2021, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-covid-lungs-worse-than-the-worst-smokers-lungs-surgeon-says/930719/31 "2021-01-17T15:36:19Z")
Sure looks like the article disagrees: > [@](#): > > Everyone’s just so worried about the mortality thing and that’s terrible and it’s awful," she [told CBS Dallas-Fort Worth](https://dfw.cbslocal.com/2021/01/13/texas-trauma-surgeon-says-post-covid-lungs-look-worse-than-any-type-of-terrible-smokers-lung-weve-ever-seen/). “But man, for all the survivors and the people who have tested positive this is — it’s going to be a problem.” > […] > She says patients who’ve had COVID-19 symptoms show a severe chest X-ray every time, and those who were asymptomatic show a severe chest X-ray 70% to 80% of the time. ---
**Author:** ![chela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chela/32/21582_2.png) [@chela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chela)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2021, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-covid-lungs-worse-than-the-worst-smokers-lungs-surgeon-says/930719/32 "2021-01-17T15:44:12Z")
That’s a false equivalent apples to oranges. Your childhood skin injury that’s faded is not comparable to lung scarring. Lung scars inhibit their function, can cause pulmonary fibrosis. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2021, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-covid-lungs-worse-than-the-worst-smokers-lungs-surgeon-says/930719/33 "2021-01-17T15:47:03Z")
Do you know that no lung scars improve ever? Because that’s not intuitively obvious. I brought up the skin scars (one of which is from a middle-aged injury) to point out that at least in same cases, scars partially improve, albeit slowly. ---
**Author:** ![FigNorton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fignorton/32/5619_2.png) [@FigNorton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FigNorton)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2021, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-covid-lungs-worse-than-the-worst-smokers-lungs-surgeon-says/930719/34 "2021-01-17T15:51:17Z")
It’s also a false equivalence because lungs have different capacity for repair than your skin. > [@](#): > > The reparative behavior of adult tissues falls along an injury-response spectrum. At one end of the scale are tissues such as the epidermis, intestine, and hematopoietic system with a constitutively high rate of cell turnover and a well-delineated stem/progenitor cell hierarchy. At the other end are organs like the heart and brain that contain few stem cells and cannot repair efficiently, resulting in scarring after injury. In between these two extremes are tissues such as the lung, liver, and pancreas that have a low steady state cell turnover yet can respond robustly after injury to replace damaged cells. > **[Repair and regeneration of the respiratory system: complexity, plasticity,...](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4212493/)** > > Respiratory disease is the third leading cause of death in the industrialized world. Consequently, the trachea, lungs, and cardiopulmonary vasculature have been the focus of extensive investigations. Recent studies have provided new information about... ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2021, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-covid-lungs-worse-than-the-worst-smokers-lungs-surgeon-says/930719/35 "2021-01-17T15:52:28Z")
My lung capacity decreased by ~10% due to radiation fibrosis. I probably wouldn’t have noticed this if it weren’t for having it pointed out to me. My stamina for something like walking long distances isn’t much affected, but anything like moving boxes or lifting weights is. ---
**Author:** ![chela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chela/32/21582_2.png) [@chela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chela)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2021, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-covid-lungs-worse-than-the-worst-smokers-lungs-surgeon-says/930719/36 "2021-01-17T15:57:30Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Do you know that no lung scars improve ever? Because that’s not intuitively obvious. I brought up the skin scars (one of which is from a middle-aged injury) to point out that at least in same cases, scars partially improve, albeit slowly. Do I know if lung scars ever improve? Is that a real question? I am not a Doctor but I intuitively know internal organs do not function the same wrt scarring like the epidermis. ---
**Author:** ![FigNorton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fignorton/32/5619_2.png) [@FigNorton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FigNorton)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2021, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-covid-lungs-worse-than-the-worst-smokers-lungs-surgeon-says/930719/37 "2021-01-17T16:00:26Z")
Right, but you might have heard that you can donate half your liver and it grows back? ---
**Author:** ![chela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chela/32/21582_2.png) [@chela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chela)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2021, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-covid-lungs-worse-than-the-worst-smokers-lungs-surgeon-says/930719/38 "2021-01-17T16:06:33Z")
And people can live with one lung, one kidney, no spleen, an artificial heart too. But an anecdote about healing skin scarring as a reasonable expectation from lungs is dubious imo. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2021, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-covid-lungs-worse-than-the-worst-smokers-lungs-surgeon-says/930719/39 "2021-01-17T16:07:36Z")
I’ve CXR’ed a good dozen of my post-covid patients who continue to complain of respiratory symptoms 3 months or more after their infection, and so far I’ve seen nothing but normal results. Exams were pretty unremarkable too. Now these guys were NOT hospitalized for respiratory failure, were not on vents, did not require oxygen or bronchodilators. They all just had bad coughs with their infection along with other symptoms, and the coughs persisted. Just reporting my experience. ETA: Lungs do not regenerate. They can clean themselves out over time, but scarred lungs remain scarred, lost alveoli do not return, new alveoli do not grow in, new bronchioles do not form. ---
**Author:** ![FigNorton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fignorton/32/5619_2.png) [@FigNorton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FigNorton)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2021, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-covid-lungs-worse-than-the-worst-smokers-lungs-surgeon-says/930719/40 "2021-01-17T16:10:52Z")
> [@chela](#): > > And people can live with one lung, one kidney, no spleen, an artificial heart too. That’s not a response to what I said. A liver regrowing itself isn’t comparable to the fact that a single kidney is enough for most people. Living with a single kidney doesn’t have anything to do with organ repair/scarring. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-covid-lungs-worse-than-the-worst-smokers-lungs-surgeon-says/930719.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-covid-lungs-worse-than-the-worst-smokers-lungs-surgeon-says/930719.md?page=3)