Avenue B Dude - here’s your URL.
http://www.dnai.com/~pcombs/$$tablecontents.html
OK, so Doctor Jackson, representing WidgetWorld, shows up at my doorstep and drags me in front of a judge. He says:
My reply, is basically the same for all three points brought up.
I am going to let the bank pay the check, but not until the date printed on the check. The vendor accepted my check in good faith with the date as written. I am not responsible for making sure there is good, attentive help at the counter. The clerk, acting on the store’s behalf, accepted my check as is with the 2009 date on it. I fully intend to honor the check as is. I have complied with (1), and have done neither (2) nor stopped payment on the check. I acknowledge my legal debt to the vendor, and am fully prepared to honor the check in eight years.
So what would the judge say? I mean besides calling me a few choice names. What legal recourse does the merchant have? More specifically, what legal remedy does the merchant have in this case that it would not have if I bought something on a no-payments-for-three-months deal?
“To be fair, the bank screwed up several times and did not handle the recovery process well, but the money never legally belonged to the guy (can’t remember his name) and he eventually returned it to the bank.”
If I recall correctly from his web site the money was legally his as far as the letter of the law is concerned. The question was wether a judge would rule in his favor considering it was obviously a mistake on the banks part. This was never resolved since he gave the cashiers check back to the bank after they apologized for the problems they caused. I am curious how it would have gone for him if he tried to keep it. But I imagine the judge would rule in favor of the bank.
John
Then he got up on top
With a tip of his hat.
“I call this game FUN-IN- A-BOX”
Said the cat.
-The Cat in the Hat
Rhythmdvl - Any of our resident lawyers are free to correct me, but the judge would say “Pay them, and pay them now, or go to jail.” No court in the land would let anyone hide behind that kind of logic.
While the judge may say “pay them, and pay them now” in a civil court he wouldn’t say “or go to jail.” They would need to file criminal charges for fraud for that to happen. But otherwise I agree, your intent in this matter was clearly to “pass one over” on the store. Occasionally the law does look to common sense and common practices.
“In this life you must be oh so smart, or oh so pleasant. For years I was smart. I recommend pleasant.” -Elwood P. Dowd in “Harvey”
I’m assuming (and, yes, I know what happens when you assume) that that was part of the contract. She said that the contract stated that:
- She would pay by post-dated check
and
- That they would cash said checks on or after the dates on the checks.
I will ask her tomorrow. She consulted a lawyer who told her that, based on the contract she showed him, the furniture people basically have no case against her. My husband is of the opinion that these people are trying to screw with her because she’s foreign, and they figure she must not know the law. (That’s her opinion as well). I’ll let you guys know how it turns out.
If you look your checking agreement you signed I bet in there it will say, you forfeit the right to damages etc if the banks pays a posted dated check before. Banks usually are too smart not to cover themselves.
I know once I stopped payment on a large check and the bank told me that if it should get cashed they aren’t responsible and sure enough it was in the agreement I signed. I simply closed my checking account and reopend another, that way if someone tried to cash it there was no account.
I see in my TCF checking account it says exactly that they can pay a post dated check at anytime. Interestingly enough it also says checks are only valid 6 months but they reserved the right to pay on ANY check regardless of wording on the check.
Okay, I’m sure you guys are sick of this, but I have a sort of update. My friend went to her bank yesterday. They gave her copies of the cancelled checks. Get this: The guy changed the date she wrote on each check! That’s why the bank cashed them! He changed the month numbers (as in 7/15/00) to “2”'s so that the dates were 2/15/00. He even initialed the change (using her initials of course). However, on one check, he forgot to scratch off the memo she had written, which had the month & year on it. Of course, though, she’s kicking herself for not getting those “duplicate checks” like she usually does. She feels awful about being (as she puts it) so naive. So, she’s consulting a lawyer again after this latest development. We’ll see what happens.
BTW, is it illegal to “forge” someone’s initials?
To throw this question is reverse, what about stale dated checks? In January & February I saw printed on many of my bills & invoices:
They are obviously expecting a lot of people to put 1999 on their checks just out of habit. Can a check not be cashed after a certain date? What if I had checks printed up with some fine print at the bottom that said “void after 90 days”? My employer does this to me. Can I really cash his check after 90 days?
Hi. Just an update for anyone who’s curious. My friend’s daughter-in-law (who knows a lot about the law) called the furniture company today. She had my friend in the office to listen on speakerphone. She told this guy that the State’s Attorney’s Office had already been called (which they had–it wasn’t B.S.). She said she’d make him a deal: He pays my friend back the money he owes her plus the cost of all the overdraft fees. Then he writes a letter of apology to her so she can bring it to the bank (which has cancelled her account due to this problem). In return, the daughter-in-law will write him a check to cover the cost of the furniture (which my friend will now get at a cheaper price). The guy admitted on the phone that his boss (the owner) had changed the dates on the checks, and that they were aware that what they did was wrong. He said he’d talk to his boss and call her back today. That’s the last I heard, but the daughter-in-law is pretty sure that they’ll take this deal since the words “State’s Attorney” prettymuch scared the s*** out of him.