If he’s convicted, I hope that is used as an argument to go ahead and declare him ineligible for public office. It would be clearer for Congress to do it as a sanction that clearly applies to him than to have arguments and litigation over whether what he did qualifies as engaging in insurrection or giving aid and comfort. But it should also show that it’s an appropriate sanction.
It was … complicated.
I agree with both of these points, and if Trump becomes the example going forward of where the line is, so be it. I guess I just like that there are relatively few requirements to be President and am very cautious about any movement towards a system where a dominant political faction could even hypothetically bar members of the other party from running again.
I’m sure nobody wants a system where one side controls who gets to run, regardless of which side it is. I was just pointing out that we’re far from that.
Since we don’t exactly have a thousand of these Senate impeachment trials to use as precedent, I hope this isn’t too dumb a question. Can ordinary citizens like you and me be called to testify in a Senate impeachment trial?
For example, suppose Viking Guy - pissed that he didn’t receive a Trump pardon - makes it known that he’s willing to testify under oath that “yes, I felt incited by President Donald J Trump to storm the US Capitol Building on January 6th, 2021”.
Can Schumer / the Democrats call him to testify (to presumably strengthen their case), just like they could in a run-of-the-mill trial? If yes, then I suppose that in return for his testimony, they could even offer him immunity from further prosecution (maybe to “juice” his testimony a bit)?
It all depends on the trial ground rules that the Senate sets before or at the beginning of the trial. Those can involve some pretty complex negotiations; whether or not to call witnesses is obviously a key issue.
And see:
Well now. Day one swear in senators, take some votes, and now pat leahey is in hospital.
Hopefully he will recover and be back in the senate.
Ugh. I can’t believe it, but I’m also not really surprised. Yes, those can both be true.
Yeah, better hope so — if he’s unable to complete his term, his replacement would be appointed by a Republican Governor.
He is back home. And hopefully all is well.
Would Senate rules permit the appointment of a non-senator as presiding officer? Say, the chief judge of the D.C. Circuit, or a respected retired U.S. district court (trial) judge, since Chief Justice Roberts has declined to preside over the trial of an ex-President? The Dems might end up needing Leahy’s vote to convict, as unlikely as it now seems, and it looks bad for him be both a “judge” and a “juror” in the same case.
[quote=“eschrodinger, post:128, topic:930190”]
All but five Republican senators backed former president Donald Trump on Tuesday in a key test vote ahead of his impeachment trial,…
[/quote] From your cite.
This isnt necessarily backing trump. There are some doubts as to the Constitutionality. And a point was made- that old scores can be dredged up decades after.
I’ve seen that noted as a concern but would they really want to do that? I mean, I know they want to do it but should they? Impeach Obama for the tan suit or Benghazi or some other bullshit? Just because they can do it doesn’t mean they should and if it is transparently obvious that they are doing it out of spite it might prove to be an unwise move no matter how much it pleases the base.
Yeah, but it is no longer a simple issue of “is trump scum” or not.
The Republicans don’t have to go that far to get revenge. It is very likely that they will take the Senate back in 2022, and possibly the House as well. Then they can have a grand time impeaching Biden over every misstep, launching special prosecutors to look into Biden family corruption, etc. The worm always turns.
This would be a very good time for everyone to start backing away from the cliff. Trump is gone, and Biden is talking about ‘getting back to normal’. That’s a very good idea, if the Democratic base will allow it.
Besides, why in hell would Democrats want to impeach Trump? I understand why many Republicans do - so long as he can run for re-election, he has the power to spoil the Republican’s chance of winning by splitting the right. They would love to put a lifetime ban on his ability to run for office. Democrats should hope they fail.
A recent Rassmussen poll found that if Trump were to run again as a third party candidate, as of today he’d get 23% of the vote, the Republicans 17%, and the Democrats something like 41%. Trump is your best friend, electorally speaking.
I want to impeach Donnie Two Scoops because the mother fucker could possibly win in 2024. Impeach him, keep his ass off the ballot, and wash this shit stain off the nation’s underwear.
I don’t see Republicans winning the Senate in 2022. OH, NC, and PA have retiring Rethug Senators. Ron Johnson is vulnerable. Chuck Grassley has a foot and four toes in the grave. Democrats could potentially lose GA if voter suppression is enacted. Other than that, I’m not seeing a potential R pickup.
Except the worm can’t turn. The Republicans have become so routinely horrible that they can’t credibly threaten to be worse.
If the Republicans gain a majority in two years, will they try to impeach Biden if the Trump impeachment goes through? Yes.
If the Republicans gain a majority in two years, will they try to impeach Biden if the Democrats drop the Trump impeachment? Also yes.
There’s nothing the Democrats can do that will put the Republicans on their good behavior. The Democrats shouldn’t try to make deals with the Republicans because the Republicans aren’t capable of making a deal.
We should treat Republicans like zombies. Don’t try to reason with them. Don’t try to negotiate with them. Don’t try to meet them halfway. Don’t try to appeal to their better nature. Just recognize them for what they are and defend yourself against them.
Anyone?
And see:
NBC News: Senators consider alternatives to impeachment trial in view of likely Trump acquittal
Unger, the author of seven books and a former contributing editor for Vanity Fair magazine, said of Trump: “He was an asset. It was not this grand, ingenious plan that we’re going to develop this guy and 40 years later he’ll be president. At the time it started, which was around 1980, the Russians were trying to recruit like crazy and going after dozens and dozens of people.”
“Trump was the perfect target in a lot of ways: his vanity, narcissism made him a natural target to recruit. He was cultivated over a 40-year period, right up through his election.”
I can’t say I’m surprised.
Well, if you use your imagination you could come up with really far-fetched scenarios where they would be worse, which are so horrific they would probably never happen. Like the President and a huge portion of the Republican Congress supporting a violent overthrow of the results of the election. But that would be so terrible to contemplate that surely cooler heads would prevail throughout the GOP as long as the Democrats don’t impeach Trump.