# Post-Modernism **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 23, 2009, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-modernism/514812 "2009-10-23T02:15:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2009, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-modernism/514812/1 "2009-10-23T02:15:49Z")
What is your opinion of post-modernism? I think post-modernism is a bunch of nonsense created by pathetic losers who liked to make everyone more or less equally pathetic and loserific as them. They have declared there is no absolute morality, no God, no hope, and no objective truth among other things. ---
**Author:** ![Svejk\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@Svejk\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Svejk_1)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2009, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-modernism/514812/2 "2009-10-23T02:18:55Z")
I don’t believe in God or in absolute morality, but I don’t want to be a pathetic loser who’s loserific, so yeah: post-modernism sucks! ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2009, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-modernism/514812/3 "2009-10-23T02:27:02Z")
PS: Maybe this needs to be moved to the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2009, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-modernism/514812/4 "2009-10-23T03:46:21Z")
Can you offer up a definition of post-modernism and a set of examples that aren’t culled from the wikipedia page? ---
**Author:** ![hansel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6bbea6/32.png) [@hansel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hansel)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2009, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-modernism/514812/5 "2009-10-23T03:47:33Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > I think post-modernism is a bunch of nonsense created by pathetic losers who liked to make everyone more or less equally pathetic and loserific as them. They have declared there is no absolute morality, no God, no hope, and no objective truth among other things. I think that you don’t have a clue what postmodernism is. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2009, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-modernism/514812/6 "2009-10-23T03:57:46Z")
Moe: Y’know, weird for the sake of weird. ---
**Author:** ![ToeJam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dfb087/32.png) [@ToeJam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ToeJam)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2009, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-modernism/514812/7 "2009-10-23T04:10:01Z")
I like to think of them as Proto-Futurists. Humanity was so laissez-faire in those halcyon days… ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2009, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-modernism/514812/8 "2009-10-23T04:24:21Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > What is your opinion of post-modernism? > > I think post-modernism is a bunch of nonsense created by pathetic losers who liked to make everyone more or less equally pathetic and loserific as them. They have declared there is no absolute morality, no God, no hope, and no objective truth among other things. Oh man, burn. Take _that_, Jean Baudrillard! Actually, all this time, I thought “Curtis LeMay” was actually a piece of performance art. Kind of a pastiche of the great conservative bugbears of late capitalism. I was particularly looking forward to the inevitable “Curtis LeMay presents the War on Christmas” this winter. But I guess I was wrong. Alas. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Bith\_Shuffle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ce73a5/32.png) [@The\_Bith\_Shuffle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Bith_Shuffle)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2009, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-modernism/514812/9 "2009-10-23T04:33:38Z")
Don’t think like that. Think of postmodernism as an attempt to critically locate ideology within the absurd culture of modernism. Or something. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2009, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-modernism/514812/10 "2009-10-23T04:39:11Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > What is your opinion of post-modernism? > > I think post-modernism is a bunch of nonsense created by pathetic losers who liked to make everyone more or less equally pathetic and loserific as them. They have declared there is no absolute morality, no God, no hope, and no objective truth among other things. No, that would be nihilism. [Postmodernism](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postmodernism) is a bit more complicated. It does not simply deny or negate or reject, it **deconstructs.** > [@](#): > > Postmodernism is an aesthetic, literary, political or social philosophy, which was the basis of the attempt to describe a condition, or a state of being, or something concerned with changes to institutions and conditions (as in Giddens, 1990) as postmodernity. In other words, postmodernism is the “cultural and intellectual phenomenon”, especially since the 1920s’ new movements in the arts, while postmodernity focuses on social and political outworkings and innovations globally, especially since the 1960s in the West. > > The Compact Oxford English Dictionary refers to postmodernism as “a style and concept in the arts characterized by distrust of theories and ideologies and by the drawing of attention to conventions.”[1] > > The term postmodern is described by Merriam-Webster as meaning either “of, relating to, or being an era after a modern one” or “of, relating to, or being any of various movements in reaction to modernism that are typically characterized by a return to traditional materials and forms (as in architecture) or by ironic self-reference and absurdity (as in literature)”, or finally “of, relating to, or being a theory that involves a radical reappraisal of modern assumptions about culture, identity, history, or language”.[2] > > The American Heritage Dictionary describes the meaning of the same term as "Of or relating to art, architecture, or literature that reacts against earlier modernist principles, as by reintroducing traditional or classical elements of style or by carrying modernist styles or practices to extremes: “It [a roadhouse] is so architecturally interesting … with its postmodern wooden booths and sculptural clock”.[3] ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2009, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-modernism/514812/11 "2009-10-23T04:42:30Z")
[hijack] More important question: What comes next? What are we going to call it when we’ve used up “postmodern”? “Postpostmodern” is just too too. I propose “cyberzoic”! It’s scientific-sounding, it’s open to open-ended interpretation, and it’s got “cyber-” in it! 🆒 [/hijack] ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2009, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-modernism/514812/12 "2009-10-23T04:49:37Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > More important question: What comes next? What are we going to call it when we’ve used up “postmodern”? “Postpostmodern” is just too too. [Uh-oh.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-postmodernism) ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2009, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-modernism/514812/13 "2009-10-23T05:29:28Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [hijack] > > More important question: What comes next? What are we going to call it when we’ve used up “postmodern”? “Postpostmodern” is just too too.[/hijack] I’ve always found both Modern and Postmodern to be rather arrogant titles…or really pessimistic ones. You know, either saying they are the be all end all, or simply closing in on the end. Your cite includes both political and social theory, but does anyone ever use “postmodern” to talk about anything but the arts? ---
**Author:** ![Dorothea\_Book](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/da6949/32.png) [@Dorothea\_Book](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dorothea_Book)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2009, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-modernism/514812/14 "2009-10-23T06:30:58Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > I’ve always found both Modern and Postmodern to be rather arrogant titles…or really pessimistic ones. You know, either saying they are the be all end all, or simply closing in on the end. > > Your cite includes both political and social theory, but does anyone ever use “postmodern” to talk about anything but the arts? Yes. Whole social worlds are described as postmodern. If you accept postmodernism then you are accepting certain ways of thinking about knowledge and truth. That pretty much covers everything. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2009, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-modernism/514812/15 "2009-10-23T06:48:50Z")
I like to wind up the turtleneck-and-latte set at university by pointing out to them that anything which comes after the Modern era is, realistically, The Future (or, for bonus points, The World Of Tomorrow!). Therefore, rather than describing something as “Post-modern” (ie, "after the modern or current era/fashion), they really should be calling it “Futurist”. Except Futurism involves cyborgs and interstellar travel and laser weapons. Unless it’s Retro-Futurism, in which case it’s Robot Butlers, Flying Cars, lots of perspex domes, Atomic Science being the answer to everything, and girders with holes in them for some reason. ---
**Author:** ![Dorothea\_Book](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/da6949/32.png) [@Dorothea\_Book](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dorothea_Book)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2009, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-modernism/514812/16 "2009-10-23T06:58:58Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > I like to wind up the turtleneck-and-latte set at university by pointing out to them that anything which comes after the Modern era is, realistically, The Future (or, for bonus points, The World Of Tomorrow!). But in this instance the “modern” era is specifically intended to run from roughly the Renaissance to the 1960s. Are you sure you’re really winding them up or are they just drinking too many lattes? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2009, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-modernism/514812/17 "2009-10-23T07:33:58Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > I like to wind up the turtleneck-and-latte set at university by pointing out to them that anything which comes after the Modern era is, realistically, The Future (or, for bonus points, The World Of Tomorrow!). > > Therefore, rather than describing something as “Post-modern” (ie, "after the modern or current era/fashion), they really should be calling it “Futurist”. > > Except Futurism involves cyborgs and interstellar travel and laser weapons. Unless it’s Retro-Futurism, in which case it’s Robot Butlers, Flying Cars, lots of perspex domes, Atomic Science being the answer to everything, and girders with holes in them for some reason. Actually, [futurism died out in the 1940s.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Futurism) ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2009, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-modernism/514812/18 "2009-10-23T08:24:29Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Actually, [futurism died out in the 1940s.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Futurism) I’m not surprised. There’s a complete lack of rayguns, jetpacks, people in space suits with goldfish helmets, and space-rockets that look suspiciously like bigger versions of V-2s with hatches and airlocks there. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![HazelNutCoffee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@HazelNutCoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HazelNutCoffee)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2009, 8:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-modernism/514812/19 "2009-10-23T08:46:04Z")
My favorite quote about postmodernism was from Don Patterson, who was talking about how in order to read good literature, readers have to meet authors halfway in the effort to understand the text. He then went on to say that readers have to meet postmodern authors at the train station with wheelchairs. As for the OP, have you actually read any Baudrillard or Derrida? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2009, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-modernism/514812/20 "2009-10-23T11:04:07Z")
Post modern art certainly disappears up its own ass at times, but there’s nothing wrong with commenting on the assumptions and conventions of society, art, style and similar things. And I have to second the “OP doesn’t know what postmodernism is” vote. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-modernism/514812.md?page=2)