# Post Something Interesting About English **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 23, 2017, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-something-interesting-about-english/782836 "2017-03-23T15:46:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-something-interesting-about-english/782836/21 "2017-03-23T19:09:05Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I can’t even imagine what sound you are referring to. “Gree” and the “gry” of those words sound exactly the same to me in the dialects of English I’m familiar with, namely /ɡɹi/. I’ve never heard pedigree _not_ rhyming with tree. ---
**Author:** ![Teuton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/teuton/32/3864_2.png) [@Teuton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Teuton)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-something-interesting-about-english/782836/22 "2017-03-23T19:12:02Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > Pirates doubtfully spoke any differently from any other person of the same socio-economic class of their time. “Talking like a pirate” is a Disney invention. It’s based on the dialogue written for Robert Newton, the actor who played Long John Silver in _Treasure Island_ and _Long John Silver_. It’s some 20th century American Disney writer’s idea of the the way someone with a Scottish accent would have spoken Georgian English in a story written by a Victorian. Robert Louis Stevenson, FWIW, doesn’t have Silver speaking with things like the present subjunctive (ie, “So if that be my end,” as opposed to “So if that is my end”). The writers of the earlier version of _Treasure Island_, didn’t give Silver so many oddities, albeit, they did try to give the film a Georgian flavor, and Silver still has the Scottish accent. Or, Hollywood Scottish. I’ve heard (and [wiki](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Newton) supports it) that the accent is West Country English, the actor hailing from Dorset. Also, whilst I’m here, Angry, Hungry and Pedigree all rhyme in my accent, and I can’t think of another way to pronounce Pedigree such that it doesn’t ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-something-interesting-about-english/782836/23 "2017-03-23T19:14:34Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I can’t even imagine what sound you are referring to. “Gree” and the “gry” of those words sound exactly the same to me in the dialects of English I’m familiar with, namely /ɡɹi/. > > ETA: Just to be sure, I checked wiktionary, Merriam-Webster, and [Dictionary.com](http://Dictionary.com), and they all have the same ending for “angry,” “hungry,” and “pedigree.” I see what he’s saying. Say “angry tree” or “hungry tree” out loud and it doesn’t quite rhyme as well as “Pedigree tree.” ---
**Author:** ![Filbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/filbert/32/3433_2.png) [@Filbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Filbert)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-something-interesting-about-english/782836/24 "2017-03-23T19:18:06Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > Pirates doubtfully spoke any differently from any other person of the same socio-economic class of their time. “Talking like a pirate” is a Disney invention. It’s based on the dialogue written for Robert Newton, the actor who played Long John Silver in _Treasure Island_ and _Long John Silver_. It’s some 20th century American Disney writer’s idea of the the way someone with a Scottish accent would have spoken Georgian English in a story written by a Victorian. Robert Louis Stevenson, FWIW, doesn’t have Silver speaking with things like the present subjunctive (ie, “So if that be my end,” as opposed to “So if that is my end”). The writers of the earlier version of _Treasure Island_, didn’t give Silver so many oddities, albeit, they did try to give the film a Georgian flavor, and Silver still has the Scottish accent. Or, Hollywood Scottish. Scottish? It’s an English West country accent, which be the regional accent for where oi lives. It’s a running joke on “Talk like a pirate day” that no-one can tell who’s taking part and who’s just local. ---
**Author:** ![Patx2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/73ab20/32.png) [@Patx2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patx2)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-something-interesting-about-english/782836/25 "2017-03-23T19:22:31Z")
Every syllable has a vowel, besides orange and purple, the word month also doesn’t rhyme with anything. ---
**Author:** ![Turpentine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecd19e/32.png) [@Turpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turpentine)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-something-interesting-about-english/782836/26 "2017-03-23T19:36:54Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > I see what he’s saying. > > Say “angry tree” or “hungry tree” out loud and it doesn’t quite rhyme as well as “Pedigree tree.” I still don’t get it. I’ve sat whispering these words to myself and they all rhyme in my accent. Maybe he thinks that “hungry” and “angry” are pronounced with a soft g? ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-something-interesting-about-english/782836/27 "2017-03-23T19:37:57Z")
> [@Patx2](#): > > Every syllable has a vowel, besides orange and purple, the word month also doesn’t rhyme with anything. No it doesn’t. The “ngwee” is a minor coin, valued at 1/100 of a Zambian kwacha. Prnounced 'en-gwee". Recognized as an English word in English dictionaries. One ngwee currently worth about 1/10-cent US. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-something-interesting-about-english/782836/28 "2017-03-23T19:38:15Z")
> [@Teuton](#): > > Also, whilst I’m here, Angry, Hungry and Pedigree all rhyme in my accent, and I can’t think of another way to pronounce Pedigree such that it doesn’t In my use and experience, the final syllable of pedigree takes 2 or 3 times as long to pronounce as the final syllable of angry or hungry. The syllables _an_ and _gry_ are the same spoken length, the syllables _hun_ and _gry_ are the same spoken length, but in pedigree, the _ped_ is roughly the length of _an_, _hun_, or _gry_, the _i_ is shorter, and the _gree_ is around the same length as (and rhymes with) three or tree. So for angry and hungry, it is beat/beat, while for pedigree it is beat/halfbeat/doublebeat. Not a rhyme. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-something-interesting-about-english/782836/29 "2017-03-23T19:40:50Z")
> [@Filbert](#): > > Scottish? It’s an English West country accent, which be the regional accent for where oi lives. It’s a running joke on “Talk like a pirate day” that no-one can tell who’s taking part and who’s just local. No, what I meant was that it was Disney-Scottish. Kinda like Dick van Dyke spoke Disney-Cockney. I read it in a book about Disney live-action films, which is in storage now, and I can’t get to it, or I’d go look it up-- albeit, I read it maybe 20 years ago, so if I’m misremembering, it won’t come as a shock, but I’m nonetheless pretty sure that Silver was supposed to have an accent that passed for Scottish. ---
**Author:** ![Wednesday\_Evening](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b2d939/32.png) [@Wednesday\_Evening](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wednesday_Evening)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-something-interesting-about-english/782836/30 "2017-03-23T19:44:59Z")
The following is a perfectly legit sentence: Buffalo buffalo, Buffalo buffalo buffalo, buffalo Buffalo buffalo. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-something-interesting-about-english/782836/31 "2017-03-23T19:47:18Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > In my use and experience, the final syllable of pedigree takes 2 or 3 times as long to pronounce as the final syllable of angry or hungry. The syllables _an_ and _gry_ are the same spoken length, the syllables _hun_ and _gry_ are the same spoken length, but in pedigree, the _ped_ is roughly the length of _an_, _hun_, or _gry_, the _i_ is shorter, and the _gree_ is around the same length as (and rhymes with) three or tree. So for angry and hungry, it is beat/beat, while for pedigree it is beat/halfbeat/doublebeat. Not a rhyme. The question isn’t whether they rhyme, but whether they end in gry/gree. It may be that if you are composing a sonnet, rhyming angry with pedigree is out, but that isn’t the question. My point was that “There are three words that end in ‘gry/gree,’” works only as a spoken riddle, not a written one, because the third word in the spoken riddle can be “pedigree.” Sonnets notwithstanding. There might be a Limerick about a hungry dog who ate his pedigree, though. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-something-interesting-about-english/782836/32 "2017-03-23T19:49:17Z")
> [@Patx2](#): > > Every syllable has a vowel, besides orange and purple, the word month also doesn’t rhyme with anything. “Curple” is a rare but technically English word, and rhymes with purple. Lots of English words don’t have a true rhyme. No real word rhymes with wolf, false, or gouge. Those are of course short examples; long words probably don’t have true rhymes more often than they do. In English, a word that just rhymes using the last syllable is a “masculine rhyme,” like set and net. Words that lack a masculine rhyme are rare. A feminine rhyme is a word that matches the last two syllables, like treasure and measure. In some words they really don’t “sound” like they rhyme uless they achieve a feminine rhyme. Words without a feminine rhyme are common. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-something-interesting-about-english/782836/33 "2017-03-23T19:59:50Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > No it doesn’t. The “ngwee” is a minor coin, valued at 1/100 of a Zambian kwacha. Prnounced 'en-gwee". Recognized as an English word in English dictionaries. One ngwee currently worth about 1/10-cent US. Cwm shows up in [dictionary.com](http://dictionary.com). And of course in Scrabble. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-something-interesting-about-english/782836/34 "2017-03-23T20:02:18Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > The question isn’t whether they rhyme, but whether they end in gry/gree. You said > [@](#): > > If you ask people out loud to name three common words that end in the “gry” sound, they think of “angry,” and “hungry,” but never think of “pedigree,” I was under the impression that “end with the same sound” was _the definition_ of “rhyme.” And in my neck of the woods, pedigree does not end with a “gry” sound, but a “gree.” Analogies for the angry/pedigree pair in the English I’m familiar with are fry/free, try/tree, buy/bee, my/me, goodby/degree, etc. No rhyme, no same sound. ---
**Author:** ![Filbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/filbert/32/3433_2.png) [@Filbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Filbert)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-something-interesting-about-english/782836/35 "2017-03-23T20:07:32Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > No, what I meant was that it was Disney-Scottish. Kinda like Dick van Dyke spoke Disney-Cockney. > > I read it in a book about Disney live-action films, which is in storage now, and I can’t get to it, or I’d go look it up-- albeit, I read it maybe 20 years ago, so if I’m misremembering, it won’t come as a shock, but I’m nonetheless pretty sure that Silver was supposed to have an accent that passed for Scottish. Nope. Robert Newton, who played the character, was from the West Country himself, and did an exaggerated version of his own local accent, including phrasing. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-something-interesting-about-english/782836/36 "2017-03-23T20:12:45Z")
Has it been a terrific oversight to sanction [auto-antonyms](https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Glossary_of_auto-antonyms)? ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-something-interesting-about-english/782836/37 "2017-03-23T20:15:43Z")
This recent article about [adjective order](http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-37285796) blew my mind. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-something-interesting-about-english/782836/38 "2017-03-23T20:18:47Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > I was under the impression that “end with the same sound” was _the definition_ of “rhyme.” And in my neck of the woods, pedigree does not end with a “gry” sound, but a “gree.” Analogies for the angry/pedigree pair in the English I’m familiar with are fry/free, try/tree, buy/bee, my/me, goodby/degree, etc. No rhyme, no same sound. I’m sorry, but this is confusing. Are you trying to say that you pronounce the ends of “angry” and “hungry” like they rhyme with “try”? ---
**Author:** ![Turpentine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecd19e/32.png) [@Turpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turpentine)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-something-interesting-about-english/782836/39 "2017-03-23T20:19:35Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > You said > > I was under the impression that “end with the same sound” was _the definition_ of “rhyme.” And in my neck of the woods, pedigree does not end with a “gry” sound, but a “gree.” Analogies for the angry/pedigree pair in the English I’m familiar with are fry/free, try/tree, buy/bee, my/me, goodby/degree, etc. No rhyme, no same sound. Still don’t get it. Do you mean to say that hungry is pronounced in a way that the -gry sounds like “eye”, like your examples there? Or are you supposed to say “pedigree”, you’re supposed to say it "pedigreeeeeeeeee? Again, when I say angry, hungry and pedigree, they all end with the same sound. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-something-interesting-about-english/782836/40 "2017-03-23T20:21:27Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > This recent article about [adjective order](http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-37285796) blew my mind. Holy crap! :eek: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-something-interesting-about-english/782836.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-something-interesting-about-english/782836.md?page=3)