# Post Something Interesting About English

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-something-interesting-about-english/782836>\
**Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\
**Created:** [March 23, 2017, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-something-interesting-about-english/782836 "2017-03-23T15:46:27Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 8

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**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\
**Post date:** [March 28, 2017, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-something-interesting-about-english/782836/141 "2017-03-28T02:41:48Z")

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> [@Darren\_Garrison](#):
>
> Since I _don’t_ know the phonetic alphabet I don’t know if this links show what you want or not, but there is [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjWE_a8S7zo), which pronounces hungry the way I’m familiar with it (that doesn’t have the end sound of pedigree that I’m familiar with.)

To my ear that’s the hungry I’m saying has the same sound as pedigree.

I honestly do not know what you mean when you keep saying there’s a difference.

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**Author:** ![Kiwi\_Fruit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kiwi_fruit/32/12_2.png) [@Kiwi\_Fruit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kiwi_Fruit)\
**Post date:** [March 28, 2017, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-something-interesting-about-english/782836/142 "2017-03-28T02:55:38Z")

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> [@Yllaria](#):
>
> Cool. I haven’t heard that in awhile. The way I heard it, though, was “to tutor two tooters” rather than “to teach two young tooters.”

And in my country, tutor does not rhyme with tooter. It’s “tyootə”  
Rather like the nooz - nyooz pair.

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**Author:** ![harmonicamoon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/65b543/32.png) [@harmonicamoon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/harmonicamoon)\
**Post date:** [March 28, 2017, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-something-interesting-about-english/782836/143 "2017-03-28T03:20:38Z")

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> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#):
>
> If today is Tuesday, is “next Wednesday” tomorrow, or Wednesday of the following week?

When I say it, I mean tomorrow. But, I think I am in the minority. I usually have to repeat to get it right.

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**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\
**Post date:** [March 28, 2017, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-something-interesting-about-english/782836/144 "2017-03-28T03:34:59Z")

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> [@harmonicamoon](#):
>
> When I say it, I mean tomorrow. But, I think I am in the minority. I usually have to repeat to get it right.

I think you’re in the minority because when people mean tomorrow they say tomorrow. “Next” is an indication that the day is definitely \*not \*tomorrow.

The only real function of next is to make that distinction. That’s why there would be little confusion if on Tuesday you were to say “next Monday.” The function of next is to distinguish between tomorrow (Wednesday) or the day after tomorrow (Thursday) and those days in the following week. Note that there isn’t a common shorthand for the day after the day after tomorrow so any day after the second day should be interpreted as the “next” one.

The confusion really arises from people who don’t understand this. If you were to say “next Friday” on Tuesday that should indicate the Friday of the same week, rather than the Friday of the following week. But confusion does arise because no firm agreement about usage has taken hold.

We need to blame someone, so why not you? Recant, and spread the word.

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**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\
**Post date:** [March 28, 2017, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-something-interesting-about-english/782836/145 "2017-03-28T04:12:20Z")

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> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#):
>
> I honestly do not know what you mean when you keep saying there’s a difference.

Nobody does. He thinks that if he just keeps repeating himself, we’ll eventually agreeee with him.

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**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\
**Post date:** [March 28, 2017, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-something-interesting-about-english/782836/146 "2017-03-28T04:42:39Z")

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> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#):
>
> The confusion really arises from people who don’t understand this. If you were to say “next Friday” on Tuesday that should indicate the Friday of the same week, rather than the Friday of the following week. But confusion does arise because no firm agreement about usage has taken hold.
> 
> We need to blame someone, so why not you? Recant, and spread the word.

No, where I am from, if it is Tuesday and I say “See you on Friday”, that clearly means three days hence, but if I say “See you next Friday”, it is almost always ten days hence. If I say “See you on Monday” or “See you next Monday”, it typically means the same thing, because it is the following week, but, in general, “next” almost always means more than four days from now. “See you next Tuesday”, well, that can be a bit rude.

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**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\
**Post date:** [March 28, 2017, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-something-interesting-about-english/782836/147 "2017-03-28T05:09:48Z")

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> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#):
>
> Note that there isn’t a common shorthand for the day after the day after tomorrow so any day after the second day should be interpreted as the “next” one.
> 
> The confusion really arises from people who don’t understand this. If you were to say “next Friday” on Tuesday that should indicate the Friday of the same week, rather than the Friday of the following week. But confusion does arise because no firm agreement about usage has taken hold.

So, on Monday, if I say

“See you Wednesday”, that means two days later.  
“See you this Wednesday”, that means two days later.  
“See you next Wednesday”, that means nine days later.

But if I say

“See you Thursday”, that’s three days later.  
“See you this Thursday”, that’s three days later.  
and  
“See you next Thursday”, that _also_ means three days later?

That is crazy talk! :dubious:

Clearly, “next” should differentiate from “this”. If “this” is the soonest-to-come day, then “next” is the one _after that_.

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**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\
**Post date:** [March 28, 2017, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-something-interesting-about-english/782836/148 "2017-03-28T06:11:28Z")

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> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#):
>
> If today is Tuesday, is “next Wednesday” tomorrow, or Wednesday of the following week?

And is biweekly every two weeks, or twice a week?

Every two weeks is ludicrous, fortnightly is already a better term for that.

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**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\
**Post date:** [March 28, 2017, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-something-interesting-about-english/782836/149 "2017-03-28T06:28:38Z")

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> [@thelurkinghorror](#):
>
> And is biweekly every two weeks, or twice a week?
> 
> Every two weeks is ludicrous, fortnightly is already a better term for that.

One dictionary I have reasons that “bi-” means “two of” – bicycle has 2 wheels, binary has two states, bicuspid has two points; hence bi-\<time period\> should mean two of \<time period\> (biweekly = fortnightly); the preferred prefix for twice in a time period, it says, is “semi-”.

But, “semiweekly”? “Semimonthly”? No thank you, that just sounds awkward and silly to describe a bifurcation of a time period.

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**Author:** ![Avery\_Weisman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d78d45/32.png) [@Avery\_Weisman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avery_Weisman)\
**Post date:** [March 28, 2017, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-something-interesting-about-english/782836/150 "2017-03-28T06:53:01Z")

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How good are you at monosyllabic words? Bilbo’s praise utterance during his farewell party had only one word longer than one syllable.

“I do not know half of you half as much as I should like. And I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.”

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**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\
**Post date:** [March 28, 2017, 9:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-something-interesting-about-english/782836/151 "2017-03-28T09:33:45Z")

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> [@eschereal](#):
>
> One dictionary I have reasons that “bi-” means “two of” – bicycle has 2 wheels, binary has two states, bicuspid has two points; hence bi-\<time period\> should mean two of \<time period\> (biweekly = fortnightly); the preferred prefix for twice in a time period, it says, is “semi-”.
> 
> But, “semiweekly”? “Semimonthly”? No thank you, that just sounds awkward and silly to describe a bifurcation of a time period.

Thus a fortnight (really “fourteen nights”) 🙂

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\
**Post date:** [March 28, 2017, 9:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-something-interesting-about-english/782836/152 "2017-03-28T09:37:40Z")

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I should note that semimonthly and biweekly are far from the same time division BTW. One is 14 days and the other is 24 periods in a year. If you use both to mean the same thing you will by off by a fortnight per year.

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**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\
**Post date:** [March 28, 2017, 9:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-something-interesting-about-english/782836/153 "2017-03-28T09:50:04Z")

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Here is something interesting about English, we lack a gender neutral pronoun in the modern form of the language due to the same behavior that was responsible for many of the complaints about vulgar latin. The tendency of people to drop the h in words.

Historically they would have been:

Male, Female, neuter  
him, her, hit

But “hit” lost the “h” and became “it” which then grew to be considered wrong when used to refer to humans, human babies, and animals.

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**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\
**Post date:** [March 28, 2017, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-something-interesting-about-english/782836/154 "2017-03-28T11:06:57Z")

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> [@panache45](#):
>
> Nobody does. He thinks that if he just keeps repeating himself, we’ll eventually agreeee with him.

No, I’m not–I am not fucking demanding that you agree with me. I’m not so stupid that I don’t realize that there are different pronunciations in different regions. All I’m saying is that the pronunciations I am familiar with are, in fact, different,and that will remain a fact no matter how much you don’t agree with it.

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**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\
**Post date:** [March 28, 2017, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-something-interesting-about-english/782836/155 "2017-03-28T11:23:24Z")

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> [@iamthewalrus\_3](#):
>
> All those words you listed, and the words hungry, and angry, and pedigree, end in /i/ in my dialect.

Okay, having had a chance to listen to the [wiki samples](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPA_vowel_chart_with_audio), pedigree (and the other examples I gave) definitely end with the “front, close” upper-left “i”, but none of them closely match the angry/hungry sound, with the closest being probably the “close, central” “ɨ”, third from the left on the top row (but it is stretched out 2 or 3 times too long.)

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**Author:** ![Sir\_T-Cups](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Sir\_T-Cups](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_T-Cups)\
**Post date:** [March 28, 2017, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-something-interesting-about-english/782836/156 "2017-03-28T14:42:56Z")

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> [@rat\_avatar](#):
>
> Thus a fortnight (really “fourteen nights”) 🙂

It took 4 pages and wading through a sea of rhyming nonsense before I finally found something I didn’t actually know. It makes so much sense now!

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**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\
**Post date:** [March 28, 2017, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-something-interesting-about-english/782836/157 "2017-03-28T14:50:33Z")

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> [@Darren\_Garrison](#):
>
> Okay, having had a chance to listen to the [wiki samples](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPA_vowel_chart_with_audio), pedigree (and the other examples I gave) definitely end with the “front, close” upper-left “i”, but none of them closely match the angry/hungry sound, with the closest being probably the “close, central” “ɨ”, third from the left on the top row (but it is stretched out 2 or 3 times too long.)

Hungry/angry is not an “eww” sound. Not in any accent I’ve ever heard in my life. We understand that accents exist as well as you do. It remains a fact that the sounds you point to as examples do not correspond to what we hear.

Have you ever said where you lived and what form of accent you have?

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**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\
**Post date:** [March 28, 2017, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-something-interesting-about-english/782836/158 "2017-03-28T15:22:31Z")

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> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#):
>
> Hungry/angry is not an “eww” sound. Not in any accent I’ve ever heard in my life.

Yes, I said that nothing matched, but that was the closest non-match. I’ll make this one last post, then drop this extreme thread hijacking (sorry, OP!)

I posted [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gd09V2AkZv4) link before–it is _exactly_ how I hear the word “pedigree.” I just thought of [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4BwG7UF-l4) reference–it is _exactly_ how I hear the word “angry.” You can rest assured that, when I’m talking about the pronunciation of either word, I’m talking about those pronunciations. Those end sounds are _not_ the same to me. They may be the same to your ear. They may be to the ears of everyone else reading this thread. But they are not to mine.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\
**Post date:** [March 28, 2017, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-something-interesting-about-english/782836/159 "2017-03-28T15:38:06Z")

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> [@Darren\_Garrison](#):
>
> I posted [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gd09V2AkZv4) link before–it is _exactly_ how I hear the word “pedigree.”

The vowel sound at the end of that word is IPA /i/. When I say angry/hungry/tree/pedigree, they all end with that sound.

> [@](#):
>
> I just thought of [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4BwG7UF-l4) reference–it is _exactly_ how I hear the word “angry.”

Aha! That is a different sound. To my ear, that sounds like /ɪ/. My dictionary lists /ˈæŋɡrɪ/ as the British pronunciation of angry.

Are you perhaps British, or from somewhere with a somewhat British-sounding dialect?

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**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\
**Post date:** [March 28, 2017, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-something-interesting-about-english/782836/160 "2017-03-28T15:51:52Z")

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No, I’m from South Carolina, but I believe my accent is very strongly influenced by television, including large amounts of PBS and an interest in the national news as a child, so think influence by Walter Cronkite and Roger Mudd an the like.

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