# Post your ghost stories here, and I will debunk them **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 18, 2010, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674 "2010-06-18T14:53:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/1 "2010-06-18T14:53:45Z")
Since I’m not allowed to fight ignorance in [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=12591063#post12591063), I’ll do it here. Post whatever ridiculous story you have about smelling your late grandma’s perfume or seeing a plate fall off a shelf on your late Aunt Madge’s birthday, and I will patiently explain the various kinds of perfectly natural explanations that are all vastly more likely than a g-g-g-ghost!. My guess is that the woo-woos posting in the MPSIMS greenzone will not be willing to enage this subject in a GD context, but here’s hoping anyway. There is no such thing as a ghost. That is a fact, not an opinion. It’s is demonstably provable that consciousness is a property of the brain and cannot continue to exist without a brain. Suggesting that “we don’t know” what happens to consciousness after death is just as inane as saying “we don’t really know what happens to the light when a lightbulb burns out.” Yes we DO know. It’s not the same as a God belief. Gods are unfalsifiable, but we KNOW what causes consciousness. It’s also complete nonsesne to say that anything can have an immaterial existence. No it can’t. If it’s immaterial, then, by straight definition, it DOESN’T EXIST. Set 'em up. Give me your stories of woo. Tell me about how your house smells like pine and you used to know somebody who cleaned her house with Pine-Sol. Oooohh, how spooky. How am I ever going to handle that one? I’m guessing that the people getting sniffy about having factual information posted in their little MPSIMS woo thread will not be willing to stand up in this one, but I’d sure like them to try. Fire away. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/2 "2010-06-18T15:06:34Z")
What does ‘debunk’ mean? a) accept the facts, and provide an alternate explanation without recourse to the supernatural; b) disprove the event by proving that the claimed facts did not occur; c) assert that the storyteller is lying with no proof other than the axiom that supernatural events do not occur; d) something else. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/3 "2010-06-18T15:10:52Z")
b) would be fairly difficult on a message board and c) would be against the rules here (and **Diogenes the Cynic** has not proposed that anybody was lying), so I assume that if this thread takes off, it’s mostly going to be a). I don’t know if people who were telling spooky stories in MPSIMS are necessarily going to _want_ to post about it here, but we’ll see what happens. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/4 "2010-06-18T15:13:22Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Since I’m not allowed to fight ignorance in [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=12591063#post12591063), I’ll do it here. > > Post whatever ridiculous story you have about smelling your late grandma’s perfume or seeing a plate fall off a shelf on your late Aunt Madge’s birthday, and I will patiently explain the various kinds of perfectly natural explanations that are all vastly more likely than a g-g-g-ghost!. > > My guess is that the woo-woos posting in the MPSIMS greenzone will not be willing to enage this subject in a GD context, but here’s hoping anyway. > > There is no such thing as a ghost. That is a fact, not an opinion. It’s is demonstably provable that consciousness is a property of the brain and cannot continue to exist without a brain. Suggesting that “we don’t know” what happens to consciousness after death is just as inane as saying “we don’t really know what happens to the light when a lightbulb burns out.” > > Yes we DO know. It’s not the same as a God belief. Gods are unfalsifiable, but we KNOW what causes consciousness. > > It’s also complete nonsesne to say that anything can have an immaterial existence. No it can’t. If it’s immaterial, then, by straight definition, it DOESN’T EXIST. > Set 'em up. Give me your stories of woo. Tell me about how your house smells like pine and you used to know somebody who cleaned her house with Pine-Sol. Oooohh, how spooky. How am I ever going to handle that one? > > I’m guessing that the people getting sniffy about having factual information posted in their little MPSIMS woo thread will not be willing to stand up in this one, but I’d sure like them to try. Fire away. I have experienced a lot of your so-called “ghost stories”, but first would like to know what proof you have that consciousness needs the brain to function. Now I am sure you can come up with physical explanations for spiritual events. Anyone can do that. But where is your proof about consciousness. There has been 35 years of research into near death experiences that show consciousness does exist without the brain. It is not enought to just call the research names and think you have disprove it. So I will tell you a ghost story when you show me the proof. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/5 "2010-06-18T15:17:06Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > I have experienced a lot of your so-called “ghost stories”, but first would like to know what proof you have that consciousness needs the brain to function. Now I am sure you can come up with physical explanations for spiritual events. Anyone can do that. But where is your proof about consciousness. > > There has been 35 years of research into near death experiences that show consciousness does exist without the brain. It is not enought to just call the research names and think you have disprove it. So I will tell you a ghost story when you show me the proof. What would constitute “proof” to someone who neither understands or respects scientific methodology? ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/6 "2010-06-18T15:18:36Z")
I stopped posting in that thread, because, after all, it was eventually just being a dick to keep pointing out “Yeah, swapping anecdotes might be fun, but as we do so, let’s not kid ourselves about their significance”. Still, I am fundamentally in agreement with you. I’ve never started a parody thread before, but I feel the urge: Have you ever had a visitation or sign from a werewolf? Have you ever had a visitation or sign from a vampire? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/7 "2010-06-18T15:20:36Z")
**Dio** , could I help debunk too? I love debunking things! ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/8 "2010-06-18T15:25:23Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > It’s also complete nonsesne to say that anything can have an immaterial existence. No it can’t. If it’s immaterial, then, by straight definition, it DOESN’T EXIST. Art can exist immaterially. And it can arise out of nothing. Also, while the brain seems in a general way essential to consciousness, we don’t have it all pinned down and nicely wrapped up the way you seem to be suggesting we do. Not that I believe in ghosts, or God, for that matter, mind you-- there many compelling arguments and discussions to be had about conscioussness and materialism, and none that I can think of invoke those presumably fictional entities. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/9 "2010-06-18T15:27:59Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > What does ‘debunk’ mean? It means I will provide at least one (probably more) explanation for your story which is more likely than a ghost. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/10 "2010-06-18T15:29:37Z")
> [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > **Dio** , could I help debunk too? I love debunking things! Sure. The more the merrier. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/11 "2010-06-18T15:31:42Z")
You’ve made some statements in the OP that I am really tempted to debate on philosophical grounds, but I won’t since that would turn this into a different kind of thread. I think the idea for this thread—providing rational explanations for instances of supposed ghostly, paranormal, or unexplained phenomena—is a good and fascinating one. I wish the OP hadn’t taken quite such a sneering and confrontational tone, since I think that might discourage participation from people who might be interested in hearing explanations of things they have experienced or been told about, but who don’t want to be made to feel like idiots. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/12 "2010-06-18T15:34:42Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > Art can exist immaterially. How so? > [@](#): > > And it can arise out of nothing. Really? Paintings and sculptures just pop into existence out of the quantum field? What are you talking about? > [@](#): > > Also, while the brain seems in a general way essential to consciousness, we don’t have it all pinned down and nicely wrapped up the way you seem to be suggesting we do. You are incorrcet about this. We have it completely pinned down. Consciousness is 100% an emergent bio-physical property of the physical brain and nothing else. > [@](#): > > Not that I believe in ghosts, or God, for that matter, mind you-- there many compelling arguments and discussions to be had about conscioussness and materialism, and none that I can think of invoke those presumably fictional entities. Well, my thread is aimed at people who think invisible, magic “spirits” continue to exist (in some paradoxical “non-material” fashion) telling mediums their initials and knocking over cups. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/13 "2010-06-18T15:40:56Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > Art can exist immaterially. And it can arise out of nothing. Also, while the brain seems in a general way essential to consciousness, we don’t have it all pinned down and nicely wrapped up the way you seem to be suggesting we do. What evidence do we have that consciousness resides somewhere other than the brain? The evidence that it resides within the brain is quite compelling - people with functional brains have functional minds, damage to the appropriate portions of the brain damages the mind, and severe damage to the brain destroys the mind entirely. What reason have we to believe the mind resides elsewhere? ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/14 "2010-06-18T15:44:42Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > I think the idea for this thread—providing rational explanations for instances of supposed ghostly, paranormal, or unexplained phenomena—is a good and fascinating one. I wish the OP hadn’t taken quite such a sneering and confrontational tone, since I think that might discourage participation from people who might be interested in hearing explanations of things they have experienced or been told about, but who don’t want to be made to feel like idiots. Exactly. I’ve had “ghost” encounters if you want to call them that- I’m not talking about an opaque pirate rattling chains and singing shanties all night long but experiences that lead me to believe we don’t know everything that’s out there, and for the record I don’t believe in life after death or an immortal soul of any kind. I am also completely aware of what the skeptical explanations of my experiences could be, and just as the faith healers have the “his faith wasn’t strong enough” line to fallback the debunkers have “it was hallucination/imagination/dream-state/etc.” to fall back on. So what it comes down to is a very personal and very insular "I know what I experienced, you don’t, I’m not trying to force anybody to share my beliefs and as such I don’t really give a damn what you think about them’. Love ya, Dio, mean it, but the OP reminds me of panhandlers asking for change to get a Big Mac when you know they don’t want food, they want a fix. You’re not asking for anecdotal spare coins because you want to get the Big Mac of debunker but because you need a meth fix of snide, to mix and possibly bludgeon and date rape a metaphor or two. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/15 "2010-06-18T15:45:59Z")
My interest is in fighting ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/16 "2010-06-18T15:47:21Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > You’ve made some statements in the OP that I am really tempted to debate on philosophical grounds, but I won’t since that would turn this into a different kind of thread. > > I think the idea for this thread—providing rational explanations for instances of supposed ghostly, paranormal, or unexplained phenomena—is a good and fascinating one. I wish the OP hadn’t taken quite such a sneering and confrontational tone, since I think that might discourage participation from people who might be interested in hearing explanations of things they have experienced or been told about, but who don’t want to be made to feel like idiots. I don’t have a problem with people seeking rational explanations. I have a probem with people blithely assigning _asinine_ explanations and refusing to even _listen_ to rational explanations. ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/17 "2010-06-18T15:51:34Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > What would constitute “proof” to someone who neither understands or respects scientific methodology? I understand and respect scientific methodology, and I would like further explanation of **Dio’s** assertion that consciousness is proven to be solely a function of the brain. I’m not saying he’s wrong, I’d just like to see what he’s putting forward as proof. It still seems like a problem of negative proof. I’ll be in my bunk. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/18 "2010-06-18T15:56:37Z")
> [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](#): > > I understand and respect scientific methodology, and I would like further explanation of your assertion that consciousness is known to be solely a function of the brain. I’m not saying you’re wrong, I’d just like to see what you’re putting forward as proof. It still seems like a problem of negative proof. > > I’ll be in my bunk. It _is_ a problem of negative proof - I cannot prove that there is no place outside the brain in which consciousness resides, any more than I can prove there is not a wholly invisible, intangible Magic Tiger lurking behind you. Right now. Waiting to pounce. No, don’t turn around - you won’t see it, and you’ll only anger the beast. You don’t want that. However, there is (as already discussed) compelling evidence that consciousness resides within the brain. There is no reproducible evidence that it resides elsewhere, and absent such evidence, claims to that effect deserve to be taken no more seriously than my Magic Tiger claim. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/19 "2010-06-18T16:04:08Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > How so? > Really? Paintings and sculptures just pop into existence out of the quantum field? > What are you talking about? > > You are incorrcet about this. We have it completely pinned down. Consciousness is 100% an emergent bio-physical property of the physical brain and nothing else. > > Well, my thread is aimed at people who think invisible, magic “spirits” continue to exist (in some paradoxical “non-material” fashion) telling mediums their initials and knocking over cups. There is nothing pinned down about consciousness. What you are talking about is a theory. OK. I will tell you just one of my many, many ghosts stories just to see your physical explanation.. My father-in-law was seriously ill in the hospital. My whole family had been at the hospital most of the day when my wife suggested I take her mother home and go home to get some sleep. So I did take her mother home and went home so I could go back in the morning to trade places with my wife and daughter. I just fell onto the couch fully-clothed when I got home and went to sleep, I was exhausted. After what seemed like a short time, I was awoken by my father-in-laws’ voice calling my name loudly. I set up, and then heard him say “it is time for you to go back to the hospital.” I looked at the clock, it was 3:30am, I had been asleep about 3 hours. While I was sitting there deciding what to do, the phone rang. It was my wife telling me her dad had passed a few minutes ago. When I arrived at the hospital to pick up my family, my daughter said she had seen a ghost image of her grandfather’s favorite cat walking across his bed just before he died. Later when I went to tell my mother-in-law about her husband’s demise she told me that the cat had died, and I needed to dispose of its body. Now let’s see what physical explanations you have for that. I told you exactly what happened. ---
**Author:** ![Rushgeekgirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rushgeekgirl/32/3715_2.png) [@Rushgeekgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rushgeekgirl)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/20 "2010-06-18T16:06:32Z")
I think the idea that you think you know every explanation is as preposterous as the idea that there are gods. You have no idea why my child believed my mother came to visit her after she died. I have no idea and I know them both as well as I know myself. I don’t believe in ghosts, but I don’t understand what happened that night with my daughter. It was just not in her nature to make up such things. I’ve been baffled for 16 years. How can you easily explain it away? You can’t. You’ll give your opinion just like dozens of others have. You won’t debunk anything, especially if all you can come up with is that it was her imagination. I could sit here all day and tell people it’s just their imaginations, or funny wiring or old houses settling. It will only be opinion. No sense thinking so highly of your opinion. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674.md?page=2)