# Post your ghost stories here, and I will debunk them **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 18, 2010, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674 "2010-06-18T14:53:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/181 "2010-06-18T21:34:24Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > God exists for me because I have experience God. Experience is knowledge, and knowledge is what many people have of God, the rest have faith. There are tons of individual personal evidence of God. Because you may not have experienced God yet does not mean He doesn’t exist. And just because you think you have experienced God doesn’t mean he does exist. You could be self deluded and utterly wrong. In fact, that’s by far the most likely possibility. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/182 "2010-06-18T21:34:54Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > What I am using here is simple logic. Will you _please_ stop misusing the “L” word. It gives me a headache when you do it and you are making the baby Aristotle cry. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/183 "2010-06-18T21:35:03Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Same question I asked before: > What would we have to show you to prove the nonexistence of your deity? > > If the answer is that nothing could convince you, than your participation in this thread is based on deception, because you have pre-rejected what you ask us to do. I disagree with you here. It’s not deceptive for **lekatt** or **kanicbird** to participate in this thread just because they are not going to have their minds changed. Neither of them has asked for proof that god doesn’t exist, at least in this thread. Their participation here might be entirely pointless and based on ignorant presumptions about science and rational thought, but I don’t see intent to deceive. > [@kanicbird](#): > > By using science you are using the study of the natural to define the supernatural This is a made-up distinction. > [@](#): > > Science after all is just a story that is created to define reality that is allowed to change when evidence is presented contrary to the story There is no “story.” And science doesn’t define reality. It’s an effort to understand it. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/184 "2010-06-18T21:35:45Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > What I am using here is simple logic. Science says materialism is the only dimension. But Science doesn’t know everything. Therefore science doesn’t know whether materialism is the only dimension or not. Science is contradicted by faulty logic. The sad thing is you really do think that science sat down one morning, declared “materialism is all there is!”, and has been staunchly disregarding evidence left and right ever since. Science (being done by humans) is heavily populated by theists and always has been. Science was _forced_ to backtrack to materialism because the claims of spiritualism _never_ stand up to scrutiny. If ghosts really existed, scientists wouldn’t dismiss them - they’d _study_ them. And get rich. Both from the fame and using them to power automobiles: win-win! Unfortunately, the spiritualists are blowing smoke and mirrors, and we’re stuck resorting to fossil fuels. Which is a blasted shame because if we have to burn dead things it’d be much better if the exhaust was ephemeral. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/185 "2010-06-18T21:37:42Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Your participation in this thread shows that you _do_ care. Are you going to answer my question? My participation is this thread is because I love to debate. As for your question, it is not answerable, it is like most of your posts against mine, designed to insult. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/186 "2010-06-18T21:41:59Z")
Just to focus the thread a _little_ more, I did not intend to start a discussion about the existence of God, but about “ghosts” as explanations for observed phenomena. ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/187 "2010-06-18T21:42:04Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Well if life is a computer game, then someone must have designed it, that would be God. Even by your standards, that is a pretty pathetic effort. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/188 "2010-06-18T21:44:53Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > How does one judge the experiences of others, when one doesn’t have a clue as to what those experiences are? Unless, of course, you are God. I think your logic is more than faulty, its irrational. We wait for them to tell us about what they experienced before judging, obviously. For example, you went to bed one night, fell asleep, had vivid experience inconsistent with corporeal reality as you know it, and then awakened back in normal reality. Or so your website says. Having accumulated the account of the events, we list the possibilities. 1. You spontaneously died in your sleep, your spirit went a-wandering, your spirit was sent back, and the spontaneous damage that killed you was magically repaired. 2. You slept and had a dream. Then we assess the likelihood of each possibility. 1. Highly irregular and improbable, by statistics alone. 2. Extremely probable; everybody sleeps and dreams. Then we draw a conclusion: Conclusion: The more probable outcome is more probable. Then we offer a test: Hey **lekatt** - you got spirit guides who know everything, right? What two movies did I watch last night? Surely God knows. Go on, make a believer out of me. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/189 "2010-06-18T21:48:39Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > The sad thing is you really do think that science sat down one morning, declared “materialism is all there is!”, and has been staunchly disregarding evidence left and right ever since. > > Science (being done by humans) is heavily populated by theists and always has been. Science was _forced_ to backtrack to materialism because the claims of spiritualism _never_ stand up to scrutiny. If ghosts really existed, scientists wouldn’t dismiss them - they’d _study_ them. And get rich. Both from the fame and using them to power automobiles: win-win! > > Unfortunately, the spiritualists are blowing smoke and mirrors, and we’re stuck resorting to fossil fuels. Which is a blasted shame because if we have to burn dead things it’d be much better if the exhaust was ephemeral. Not true. materialism was adopted by science in the 1960’s, how it was decided is unknown to me. Science was heavily populated by theist up to that time. Since science has been teaching its materialism to children in school we have a lot more atheist scientists. There are over a hundred scientists at over a dozen universities now studying near death experiences which show that consciousness is not local to the brain and can exist after the body and brain are dead. That research is showing real evidence of the spiritual nature of man. So all scientists have not abandoned a spiritual dimension. Then science has never proved that spirituality does not exist, never. What is a shame is the denial of this research. But in the end this spiritual research will win, because it is real evidence, going up against a bunch of theories. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/190 "2010-06-18T21:48:57Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Just to focus the thread a _little_ more, I did not intend to start a discussion about the existence of God, but about “ghosts” as explanations for observed phenomena. Sorry about that-I blame the Tullamore Dew. I haven’t had any yet. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/191 "2010-06-18T21:55:18Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > We wait for them to tell us about what they experienced before judging, obviously. For example, you went to bed one night, fell asleep, had vivid experience inconsistent with corporeal reality as you know it, and then awakened back in normal reality. Or so your website says. > > Having accumulated the account of the events, we list the possibilities. > > 1. You spontaneously died in your sleep, your spirit went a-wandering, your spirit was sent back, and the spontaneous damage that killed you was magically repaired. > 2. You slept and had a dream. > > Then we assess the likelihood of each possibility. > > 1. Highly irregular and improbable, by statistics alone. > 2. Extremely probable; everybody sleeps and dreams. > > Then we draw a conclusion: > Conclusion: The more probable outcome is more probable. > > Then we offer a test: > Hey **lekatt** - you got spirit guides who know everything, right? What two movies did I watch last night? Surely God knows. Go on, make a believer out of me. Your post is insulting, and proves your lack of knowledge about my personal experiences. Intelligent people realize they can not know the inner most personal experiences of others and act accordingly. You are being most irrational not to mention totally wrong about my experiences. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/192 "2010-06-18T21:55:42Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Just to focus the thread a _little_ more, I did not intend to start a discussion about the existence of God, but about “ghosts” as explanations for observed phenomena. He’s right. Ghosts and gods can be lumped generically into “the supernatural,” but we’ve done the god debate a thousand times. Let’s confine this discussion to ghosts and spirits more specifically. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/193 "2010-06-18T22:06:39Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Your post is insulting, and proves your lack of knowledge about my personal experiences. Intelligent people realize they can not know the inner most personal experiences of others and act accordingly. You are being most irrational not to mention totally wrong about my experiences. Nope. When it comes to your experiences with ghosts he pretty much nailed it, according to your own blog. You went to bed, either you saw a supernatural entity or you dreamed you saw a supernatural entity, then you woke up fine and dandy. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/194 "2010-06-18T22:10:49Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Your post is insulting, and proves your lack of knowledge about my personal experiences. Intelligent people realize they can not know the inner most personal experiences of others and act accordingly. You are being most irrational not to mention totally wrong about my experiences. Which part of my post, specifically, was insulting? ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/195 "2010-06-18T22:12:45Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Not true. materialism was adopted by science in the 1960’s, how it was decided is unknown to me. Science was heavily populated by theist up to that time. Since science has been teaching its materialism to children in school we have a lot more atheist scientists. Cite? On the date of this alleged changeover, and what did scientists teach prior to then? ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/196 "2010-06-18T22:13:01Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Not true. materialism was adopted by science in the 1960’s, how it was decided is unknown to me. Science was heavily populated by theist up to that time. Since science has been teaching its materialism to children in school we have a lot more atheist scientists. > > There are over a hundred scientists at over a dozen universities now studying near death experiences which show that consciousness is not local to the brain and can exist after the body and brain are dead. That research is showing real evidence of the spiritual nature of man. So all scientists have not abandoned a spiritual dimension. > > Then science has never proved that spirituality does not exist, never. What is a shame is the denial of this research. But in the end this spiritual research will win, because it is real evidence, going up against a bunch of theories. I’m just gonna take your keys and call you a cab, okay? Or you can walk home. No driving, though. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/197 "2010-06-18T22:19:26Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I’m just gonna take your keys and call you a cab, okay? Or you can walk home. No driving, though. He’s probably right that there are over a hundred scientists and/or people who _call_ themselves “scientists” who now or previously have looked into the notion that ghosts might truck around. There might even be that many who think the things are real; it’s a big planet after all. Similarly, many of these folks will actually have day jobs in education and actually work, possibly in the sciences, at some of the thousands of universities out there. Though I’m still not with him about scientists having been immaterialists or whatever prior to the 60s. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/198 "2010-06-18T22:22:38Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > There are over a hundred scientists at over a dozen universities now studying near death experiences which show that consciousness is not local to the brain and can exist after the body and brain are dead. That research is showing real evidence of the spiritual nature of man. So all scientists have not abandoned a spiritual dimension. Please cite real evidence of the spiritual nature of man derived from the study of near death experiences. I assume the cited work would define ‘spiritual nature of man’, and the methodology used to obtain this evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/199 "2010-06-18T22:25:01Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Please cite real evidence of the spiritual nature of man derived from the study of near death experiences. I assume the cited work would define ‘spiritual nature of man’, and the methodology used to obtain this evidence. Oh ghod. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/200 "2010-06-18T22:33:13Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Please cite real evidence of the spiritual nature of man derived from the study of near death experiences. I assume the cited work would define ‘spiritual nature of man’, and the methodology used to obtain this evidence. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > Oh ghod. We’ve done the NDE thing… well, to death, actually. I’m not going to let this turn into yet another useless go-round on near death experiences. I’ll allow the mention of NDEs as far as they (allegedly) support the idea of humans having a spiritual existence of some kind, but I’m not going to allow this to turn into another debate on NDEs, whether they are real, and what the cites do or don’t mean. We’ve done it before and we’ll do it again. If anybody wants to watch that, they should start a new thread. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674.md?page=11)