# Post your ghost stories here, and I will debunk them **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 18, 2010, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674 "2010-06-18T14:53:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/341 "2010-06-21T15:09:48Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > So in order to maintain your belief that this was a real occurence, you find it reasonable that the dead can assume corporal form? But she wouldn’t be a ghost, then-she would be a zombie. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/342 "2010-06-21T15:13:08Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > So in order to maintain your belief that this was a real occurence, you find it reasonable that the dead can assume corporal form? > [@Czarcasm](#): > > But she wouldn’t be a ghost, then-she would be a zombie. To be fair it’s not as if one of these is more unlikely than the other. They’re equally impossible. And **Drew Kit** is right that we assumed he was talking about seeing a floating translucent version of his grandmother. He didn’t say she looked that way. ---
**Author:** ![Drew\_Kit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7cd45c/32.png) [@Drew\_Kit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drew_Kit)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/343 "2010-06-21T15:15:35Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > This kind of makes me wonder why you’re in this thread, which is for alternate explanations of ghost stories. Either you expected someone would present an alternate version of your story or you thought you’d convince us that ghosts are real, right? And the second one isn’t very likely. Hardly, I am trying to convince you that there are more things in heaven and earth, Marely, than are currently dreamt of in your natural philosophy. I don’t think you can ‘debunk’ someone elses first hand experience, except to yourself, and that seems pointless. > [@Marley23](#): > > The bottom line is that it’s impossible that your grandmother’s spirit got up and walked - noisily - into your bedroom after she died. And it’s telling that when you had this experience, you told your parents you knew she’d died in your room _when that’s not what happened_. Aside from the impossibility issue that’s the key to the story as far as I’m concerned. It was your seven-year-old way of dealing with spooky idea that someone had died in your bed. You imagined that if she died in your room, some part of her would hang around waiting for you. So your imagination made it happen. And my imagination once recounted to my parents also made it happen retrospectively in my cynical fathers memory? Although my gran died in another room, she walked to mine -loudly and through walls - and stayed there for a short time. I’ve never seen her since, and don’t expect to for a long time yet. > [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > So in order to maintain your belief that this was a real occurence, you find it reasonable that the dead can assume corporal form? You mean corporeal and no, I make no assumptions about that. I can’t walk through walls. The reason I am happy to state this on an intelligent, questioning forum that I am new to, is that many people I know have had similar experiences. At some point science will explain it, but just because it hasn’t yet doesn’t make it magic. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/344 "2010-06-21T15:18:03Z")
> [@Drew\_Kit](#): > > You mean corporeal and no, I make no assumptions about that. I can’t walk through walls. You did make the assumption that she had enough weight to create the sound of footsteps; Does she have a physical body, or was she a phantom? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/345 "2010-06-21T15:18:29Z")
> [@Drew\_Kit](#): > > Hardly, I am trying to convince you that there are more things in heaven and earth, Marely, than are currently dreamt of in your natural philosophy. We’re not talking natural philosophy here, we’re talking supernatural happenings. > [@](#): > > I don’t think you can ‘debunk’ someone elses first hand experience, except to yourself, and that seems pointless. I’ve said the same thing throughout this thread. > [@](#): > > And my imagination once recounted to my parents also made it happen retrospectively in my cynical fathers memory? Memories do funny things sometimes. It’s possible they really heard a noise that did exactly what they describe. It’s also possible their memories were distorted over time. Memories aren’t video records, they’re impressions. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/346 "2010-06-21T15:24:10Z")
> [@Drew\_Kit](#): > > The reason I am happy to state this on an intelligent, questioning forum that I am new to, is that many people I know have had similar experiences. At some point science will explain it, but just because it hasn’t yet doesn’t make it magic. I see that you are willing to accept the possibility that science will be able to explain that your experience is real. Are you equally willing to accept the possibility that it _wasn’t_? That some details were misremembered, others may have come from a waking dream, or that some details may have been unconsciously embellished over the years? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/347 "2010-06-21T15:29:08Z")
> [@Drew\_Kit](#): > > And my imagination once recounted to my parents also made it happen retrospectively in my cynical fathers memory? Although my gran died in another room, she walked to mine -loudly and through walls - and stayed there for a short time. I’ve never seen her since, and don’t expect to for a long time yet. You’re asserting an interpretation as a fact. What happened (according to you) was that your parents heard noises and you had a dream during a stressful time in the household. Putting those things together after the fact (probably with a healthy does of selective and edited memory) you created a story that your grandmother’s ghost walked into your room. somehow this ghost was able to move through walls, but was simultaneously able to make “footstep” sounds. Those two things alone are mutually contradictory. Either she was in a material form or she wasn’t. If she could pass through walls, then what was making contact with the floor? > [@](#): > > The reason I am happy to state this on an intelligent, questioning forum that I am new to, is that many people I know have had similar experiences. At some point science will explain it, but just because it hasn’t yet doesn’t make it magic. Any claims for the supernatural are just claims for magic. ---
**Author:** ![Drew\_Kit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7cd45c/32.png) [@Drew\_Kit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drew_Kit)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/348 "2010-06-21T15:29:47Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > We’re not talking natural philosophy here, we’re talking supernatural happenings. I don’t think the word ‘supernatural’ is meaningful. Lightning was supernatural once. > [@Marley23](#): > > Memories do funny things sometimes. It’s possible they really heard a noise that did exactly what they describe. It’s also possible their memories were distorted over time. Memories aren’t video records, they’re impressions. My parents both reacted to the noise simultaneously at the time, and didn’t discuss that with me for another decade. I don’t expect to convince you, only a similar experience would do that - and there is every chance you would simply dismiss or rationalise even your own experience. “Must’ve imagined that, ignore it”. In a way I feel sorry for you, because your universe is limited to everything that has been explained to you using current, flawed, scientific method and my universe includes all that plus the rest that hasn’t been explained. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/349 "2010-06-21T15:36:27Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I see that you are willing to accept the possibility that science will be able to explain that your experience is real. Are you equally willing to accept the possibility that it _wasn’t_? That some details were misremembered, others may have come from a waking dream, or that some details may have been unconsciously embellished over the years? Never mind. I should have the seen the “I feel sooo sorry for you because I have _special_ knowledge that defies science, and you don’t!” condescension coming. ---
**Author:** ![Drew\_Kit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7cd45c/32.png) [@Drew\_Kit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drew_Kit)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/350 "2010-06-21T15:38:30Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I see that you are willing to accept the possibility that science will be able to explain that your experience is real. Are you equally willing to accept the possibility that it _wasn’t_? That some details were misremembered, others may have come from a waking dream, or that some details may have been unconsciously embellished over the years? The details weren’t unconsciously embellished over the years, we’ve only once or twice discussed this. I know I misremember, but I also know that throughout my life I have thought I have misrembered childhood experiences that I could explain only to find out that they were in fact true. I can believe science could one day explain this without pointing to an afterlife, telepathy for instance. I’m not religious. ---
**Author:** ![Algorithm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/algorithm/32/12204_2.png) [@Algorithm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algorithm)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/351 "2010-06-21T15:42:32Z")
> [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](#): > > Here is an example: “In an effort to increase ridership, RTD will offer free coffee and donuts on its early-morning runs!” > > Here’s how it came true: RTD changed a bunch of routes and offered some new ones, and to kick them off they had coffee and donuts, and they invited me to cover it. At six o’fucking clock in the morning, and my sadistic managing editor made me go. That really sounds like more of a suggestion that RTD took you up on, than a mystical prediction that came true. It’s certainly not evidence you are psychic. It just means someone thought you had a good suggestion. ---
**Author:** ![Drew\_Kit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7cd45c/32.png) [@Drew\_Kit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drew_Kit)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/352 "2010-06-21T15:43:42Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Never mind. I should have the seen the “I feel sooo sorry for you because I have _special_ knowledge that defies science, and you don’t!” condescension coming. Sorry, i’ve taken part in this thread, which obviously in advance was no benefit to me, simply because most people have responded rationally and politely the way I would have in their position. Comments like that however are unbecoming of the thread and don’t give me too high an impression of you. If you want to discuss, let’s discuss, if you want to kick out at me irrationally, let’s arrange arrange a fight. Doughball. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/353 "2010-06-21T15:47:43Z")
> [@Drew\_Kit](#): > > I don’t think the word ‘supernatural’ is meaningful. Lightning was supernatural once. Really? when? > [@](#): > > My parents both reacted to the noise simultaneously at the time, and didn’t discuss that with me for another decade. I don’t expect to convince you, only a similar experience would do that - and there is every chance you would simply dismiss or rationalise even your own experience. “Must’ve imagined that, ignore it”. In a way I feel sorry for you, because your universe is limited to everything that has been explained to you using current, flawed, scientific method and my universe includes all that plus the rest that hasn’t been explained. I’m sure they heard a noise. It just wasn’t your grandmother’s zombie/ghost clomping on the floor and passing through walls. You said you had a sister, right? How do you know she didn’t get up to take a piss? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/354 "2010-06-21T15:52:17Z")
> [@Drew\_Kit](#): > > I don’t think the word ‘supernatural’ is meaningful. I agree. Then again, Shakespeare didn’t say “natural philosophy” and the evidence for Hamlet’s ghost is pretty strong. He’s listed in the playbill. > [@](#): > > My parents both reacted to the noise simultaneously at the time, and didn’t discuss that with me for another decade. You don’t know how your parents reacted. You know how they remember reacting a decade later. I’m not calling them liars, but that’s a different situation. > [@](#): > > In a way I feel sorry for you, because your universe is limited to everything that has been explained to you using current, flawed, scientific method and my universe includes all that plus the rest that hasn’t been explained. Do me a favor and spare me the condescension. From this thread, you don’t know anything about how I see the universe. You’re getting some idea of how I feel about folk tales. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/355 "2010-06-21T15:54:31Z")
> [@Drew\_Kit](#): > > Sorry, i’ve taken part in this thread, which obviously in advance was no benefit to me, simply because most people have responded rationally and politely the way I would have in their position. Comments like that however are unbecoming of the thread and don’t give me too high an impression of you. If you want to discuss, let’s discuss, if you want to kick out at me irrationally, let’s arrange arrange a fight. > > Doughball. This kind of commentary doesn’t belong in this forum. Take it to The BBQ Pit if you think you need to. ---
**Author:** ![Drew\_Kit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7cd45c/32.png) [@Drew\_Kit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drew_Kit)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/356 "2010-06-21T15:54:52Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Really? when? In the days of Thor, Tlaloc, Perkūnas, and Fulgora. You know, a millenium or two ago at most. You would have to have been a woo-woo to doubt lightning was the work of the Gods > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I’m sure they heard a noise. It just wasn’t your grandmother’s zombie/ghost clomping on the floor and passing through walls. You said you had a sister, right? How do you know she didn’t get up to take a piss? Me and my siblings weren’t in the house, just my mother and father and grandmother. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/357 "2010-06-21T16:20:30Z")
> [@Discussion from 'ghost stories' thread in Great Debates \[posts moved from GD\]](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-from-ghost-stories-thread-in-great-debates-posts-moved-from-gd/544014/1): > > Oh, I’m _soooo_ grateful for your advice, and it’s _sooo wonderful_ to have moderators who can both post on a subject and moderate it without fear of bias. > > The guy was being a jerk Marley by using unwarranted sarcasm as an ad hominem attack in place of discussion. Permitting that and moderating me simply because you disagree with me doesn’t suggest you have a strong personal commitment to fighting ignorance. He attacked your “argument,” not you, and he didn’t use sarcasm. Snark, perhaps, but not sarcasm. You directly insulted him in return. ---
**Author:** ![BigBertha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d78d45/32.png) [@BigBertha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigBertha)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/358 "2010-06-21T16:50:44Z")
I am still waiting for my debunking. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/359 "2010-06-21T17:16:15Z")
> [@BigBertha](#): > > I am still waiting for my debunking. You are not BigBertha. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/360 "2010-06-21T17:27:45Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I don’t have to know every explanation. I just have to debunk _impossible_ ones. > > I can explain it easily. She hallucinated it. It’s actually a very common phenomenon for people to hallucinate that they are seeing or being visted by loved ones shortly after they die. It’s an emotional coping mechanism and a well-known phenomenon. That’s what happened to your daughter. You’re welcome. Alow me to arbitrarily discount all contrary evidence as hallucination, fraud or delusion, and I can pretty much prove or disprove anything I please. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674.md?page=19)