# Post your ghost stories here, and I will debunk them **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 18, 2010, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674 "2010-06-18T14:53:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/121 "2010-06-18T19:47:00Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Why is the non-existence of God the default presumptiom. Why can’t it be the other way around? Most of the time atheists and skeptics treat the non-existence of god as the default and believers treat god as the default. What else would you expect? What works in the atheists’ favor here is that the theistic universe has to explain everything in the athetistic universe and then also has to explain god. So the atheists do have parsimony on their side. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/122 "2010-06-18T19:51:31Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > What about the instant before? There was no instant before. You’ve heard of the space-time continuum? Before the universe existed there was no space, so there was no time. > [@](#): > > Where did the seed of the universe come from? That’s something physicists are looking into. > [@](#): > > What was there before God said, let there be light? I’m not sure you meant to do this, but this points out that the exact same issue exists for theists. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/123 "2010-06-18T19:51:35Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > 1. When did we start voting on facts? > 2. Again, how could you be convinced that your deity doesn’t exist? Well, when you prove for a fact taht God doesn’t exist, you can call it a fact until then if we are going to talk about who should bear the burden of proof, I think it makes sense for the folks with the minority opinion to bear the burden of persuasion. I don’t know how you can convince me that a some higher power doesn’t exist. Short of Jesus showing up and shaking your hand, how can I convince you that a higher power does in fact exist? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/124 "2010-06-18T19:52:24Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > But there is evidence that God exists. This is why I believe. It seems far more likely you are convincing yourself of something you want to be true. > [@](#): > > Unfortunately, the evidence is of a personal, experiential nature, and is not susceptible to external independent verification. How is can you tell this from someone who is deluding themselves with wishful thinking? We know for a fact people can delude themselves. We have no evidence that intangible spirits can create universes and love and transmit sons to virgins via dove-insemination. > [@](#): > > Therefore, you cannot weigh it and it cannot sway your thinking. > > So it makes perfect sense to me to believe in God, and also makes perfect sense for you not to. You are precisely half correct. 😃 > [@](#): > > We are working from different sets of evidence. Since you cannot see my evidence, I absolutely acknowledge that the correct conclusion, for you, is to not believe. I would suggest that the correct conclusion would be for you not to believe as well. Since you know that people can be deluded by wishful thinking. It isn’t a sign of stupidity or weakness, very smart people have very silly beliefs, and they all get themselves there without evidence. > [@](#): > > Since I have no evidence for zombies, except for Strom Thurmond, I share your disbelief in them. If he hungers for brains, I would suggest that the Senate is the perfect place to warehouse him. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/125 "2010-06-18T19:52:39Z")
> [@Hampshire](#): > > Will you do the same for space aliens being the default explanation for unidentifiable flying objects? Yeah if 90% of the planet believes that these UFOs are actually space aliens then sure. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/126 "2010-06-18T19:54:13Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Why is the non-existence of God the default presumptiom. Why can’t it be the other way around? Because that would be nonsensical. There are an infinite number of magical things we can imagine to exist. It would be ridiculous and counter-productive to assume that anything we can imagine must exist until proven otherwise. It would serve no scientific purpose and give us no information. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/127 "2010-06-18T19:56:11Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Well, when you prove for a fact taht God doesn’t exist, you can call it a fact until then if we are going to talk about who should bear the burden of proof, I think it makes sense for the folks with the minority opinion to bear the burden of persuasion. > > I don’t know how you can convince me that a some higher power doesn’t exist. Short of Jesus showing up and shaking your hand, how can I convince you that a higher power does in fact exist? One more time. Either tell us how you might be convinced about the non-existence of your deity, or admit that you are not arguing in good faith. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/128 "2010-06-18T19:57:11Z")
I’m going to count to three. 1… ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/129 "2010-06-18T19:58:22Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Yeah if 90% of the planet believes that these UFOs are actually space aliens then sure. You still think reality is a popularity poll? Fine. What percentage of this planet’s population do you think believe in the the same deity you do? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/130 "2010-06-18T20:00:46Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Unfortunately, the evidence is of a personal, experiential nature, and is not susceptible to external independent verification. Then it isn’t evidence at all, only belief. IOW you believe because you believe, and factuality has no bearing on it for you. You’d be on a sounder basis by telling us “A wizard did it”. ---
**Author:** ![UncleMoose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e0b2c6/32.png) [@UncleMoose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleMoose)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/131 "2010-06-18T20:04:00Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I don’t know anything about clock mechanics, so I’m a little handicapped here, but off he top of my head: > > more info - this is what the clock looks like (except the face is different) > [http://coylesauction.com/img/img2007/img022007/banjoClock.jpg](http://coylesauction.com/img/img2007/img022007/banjoClock.jpg) > you can see the two holes in the face for the key > > Something just got sprung inside the clock at a weird time that set off the chiming mechanism. > > For the above and below comment - this is the sort of thing I was trying to reproduce. I fiddled with the clock myself to try to get it to chime on something other than the hour and half hour, and couldn’t get it to go. The time was correct, so it wasn’t a matter of the minute hand being incorrect on the shaft, which is the sort of thing the link below is talking about. > > Someone else had been in the house and messed with the clock. Did you have anyone visiting at the time? Relatives from out of town for the fineral? Any kids? is it possible one of your own kids might have monkeyed with the clock? > Nope, no visitors, and everyone from my family was at the wake. > > You heard something else and mistook it for the clock chimes. > The clock was about a foot from my ear, and the chimes are very distinctive ( and loud - that’s why they weren’t wound at the time). > > Something else besides the regular mechanism cause the chimes to sound, like maybe a mouse got into the clock or something. > That wall shakes a little bit when I come in through the door right next to the clock - again, I tried to reproduce the effect and couldn’t. > > I also found [this page](http://www.clockworks.com/cintro3.html#4) for why clocks may chime at the wrong time (and apparently can be self-correcting after they do it). I should probably bring the clock back to the place that rebuilt it and see if they have any ideas, but it seems more than unlikely. I do know Occam’s razor and the power of coincidence (or Stochasticity, as a Radiolab episode from here: [Radiolab: Podcasts | WNYC Studios | Podcasts](http://www.wnyc.org/shows/radiolab/) points out.) ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/132 "2010-06-18T20:08:29Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > This isn’t a popularity contest. If 90% of people thought raping infants cured AIDS they would still be wrong. And it would be very easy to prove. > [@](#): > > God is a factual question, does he exist or not. There is no evidence that he does exist. Without any evidence, why do you believe in him? Because of my experience. > [@](#): > > Do you believe in Zombies? There is no evidence for their existence either. I have never experienced anything that leads me to believe zombies exist. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/133 "2010-06-18T20:08:38Z")
> [@UncleMoose](#): > > I should probably bring the clock back to the place that rebuilt it and see if they have any ideas, but it seems more than unlikely. I do know Occam’s razor and the power of coincidence (or Stochasticity, as a Radiolab episode from here: [http://www.wnyc.org/shows/radiolab/](http://www.wnyc.org/shows/radiolab/) points out.) I do hope you start feeling better soon. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/134 "2010-06-18T20:09:37Z")
Look, Damuri, about your talk with Jesus. You were being a dick. You were tired of being a dick. You went to a church because you were so tired of being a dick. While you were in the church, you told yourself to stop being such a dick. And you believed yourself. And since you stopped being such a dick, your life has been much better. It’s a pretty simple story. What is there to explain? What is there to debunk? Jesus in your story was like the Wizard of Oz handing out courage and heart and brains. You had the power to stop being a dick all along. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/135 "2010-06-18T20:09:52Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > The problem is that “God did it” is a complete non-starter. It explains nothing. We’ve gained so much more when we look for non-supernatural causes and explanations. Even if there is a god, it’s painfully obvious that there is little to be gained by looking to it first. The question is not “did God do it?” the question is “does God exist?” ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/136 "2010-06-18T20:09:53Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I have never experienced anything that leads me to believe zombies exist. What would lead you to believe that your deity doesn’t exist? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/137 "2010-06-18T20:15:08Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > And it would be very easy to prove. What would prove that your god doesn’t exist? There is evidence to that effect gathered every moment of every day. Good people die. Good people suffer. Evil people prosper. Disease wracks the innocent. Prayers go unanswered. Churches burn. The sick die. There is nothing that actually supports the existence of your god except self delusion. > [@](#): > > Because of my experience. Which is much more likely to be your self delusion. > [@](#): > > I have never experienced anything that leads me to believe zombies exist. That’s okay, they believe in _you_. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/138 "2010-06-18T20:15:11Z")
> [@Hampshire](#): > > Cause it would pretty much stunt the advancement of any civilization. > “Why did that man’s heart stop?” > “God did it. Period.” > No need to do any research into medicine or heart disease when you’ve already concluded god was the cause. Well I’m not proposing that God be the explanation for everything, I’m not against the scientific method. Do you really think it is not possible to support the advancement of knowledge AND believe in a higher power? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/139 "2010-06-18T20:16:12Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > doing that, I showed the psychic was wrong about a bunch of specifics. But the psychic was right, because it was a set up ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/140 "2010-06-18T20:17:32Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Ghosts cannot possibly exist. That is not an opinion or a belief, it is a hard statement about demonstrable physics. See, this is where I think your otherwise useful debunking goes off the rails. This argument, “ghosts don’t exist because they can’t” is dogmatic, and reminds me of someone arguing that the sun goes around the earth because it says so in the Bible. Or, to use a less inflammatory example, prior to the Challenger expedition (the boat, not the shuttle) they knew that the deep ocean had no life. Now we know it has lots of interesting stuff going on, because we looked for the data that shouldn’t be there according to the theory. That said, I think it is unlikely that physics will suddenly allow ghosts, but I wouldn’t have expected quarks, either. It makes more sense to me to say 'According to our understanding of physics, biology and physiology, ghost’s shouldn’t exist. Do can we come up with simpler, more parsimonious explanations? Sure, let’s try - how bout hallucinations, caused by stress, which are certainly more common". Occam’s Razor would then suggest the simpler explanation is more likely correct. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674.md?page=8)