# Post your ghost stories here, and I will debunk them **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 18, 2010, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674 "2010-06-18T14:53:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/141 "2010-06-18T20:20:02Z")
2… ---
**Author:** ![UncleMoose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e0b2c6/32.png) [@UncleMoose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleMoose)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/142 "2010-06-18T20:20:07Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I do hope you start feeling better soon. Well thanks, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/143 "2010-06-18T20:22:27Z")
> [@UncleMoose](#): > > Well thanks, I guess. Well, you _were_ looking a little blue. ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/144 "2010-06-18T20:23:05Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > 2… One and a half. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/145 "2010-06-18T20:23:43Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Well I’m not proposing that God be the explanation for everything, I’m not against the scientific method. Do you really think it is not possible to support the advancement of knowledge AND believe in a higher power? How is God an explanation for anything? That is, how does “God did it” actually explain anything. I’m having a bit of trouble here. So let’s say that you believe that God explains the origin of the universe. What exactly do you mean by this? God _caused_ the universe to _be_? If so, that’s not really an explanation - it’s an assertion about the cause of something. There is no elucidation on how God _created_ the universe on any basic level. Did God take two scoops of nothing, utter some words, and ‘poof’ a universe sprouted? I speak in jest, but _at least_ _this is a start_ I suppose. As, it posits an entity within time and space that has some sort of materiality (is that a word?) to it. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/146 "2010-06-18T20:24:48Z")
> [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](#): > > One and a half. I’ll one and a half you! ---
**Author:** ![UncleMoose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e0b2c6/32.png) [@UncleMoose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleMoose)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/147 "2010-06-18T20:25:48Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Well, you _were_ looking a little blue. Ah, now I see what you were doing there.😃 ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/148 "2010-06-18T20:30:36Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Well I’m not proposing that God be the explanation for everything, I’m not against the scientific method. Do you really think it is not possible to support the advancement of knowledge AND believe in a higher power? The problem - and this refers back to your earlier question about faith - is that taking the existence of god on faith does not promote the kind of curiosity and methodology that is compatible with advancing knowledge. There was a time it did, since many early scientists worked under church auspices and felt they were glorifying god by learning more about god’s creation. They don’t have to be adversarial, however, because religious people can still do what I just desribed. But at the moment that’s not where most of the discourse is. > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > But the psychic was right, because it was a set up From the story we’ve been told, I don’t think the evidence supports the idea of a set up. There are two reasons: one, there’s an alternative explanation that still fits what we know and is simpler. It doesn’t require the brother to conspire with someone else to pull a prank for no particular reason. And two, if it was a prank and someone told the brother where the dog was, why did the psychic tell them to look in the wrong place? If they had not decided, unbidden, to look on a second road, they would have returned home empty-handed. Or else the brother would have had to direct them to the rock-not-dirt road. ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/149 "2010-06-18T20:32:27Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > I’ll one and a half you! You seem to be the only person who reads what I’m posting at all. This makes you my new best friend. Speaking of which, I have a premonition I must share with you… . 😃 ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/150 "2010-06-18T20:34:54Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I was right. You have no idea what a theory is. Using terms you don’t understand is a bad idea. > That’s what I said. You said all of these: you’d been at the hospital all day, you were exhausted, you were already thinking about going back. > While you were barely awake after a period of stress and three hours of apparently poor sleep. I didn’t comment your statement that you “set up” [sic] after hearing the voice, which made it sound like you were instantly 100% awake and sat bolt upright- which only happens in the movies. > Still a coincidence. > I expected you would. But that doesn’t make me wrong. > The question is which explanation is _more likely_: did your dead father-in-law send you a pointless message about a phone call you were about to get anyway, or did you have a dream related to something you’d been thinking about and dealing with all day? I know what gets my vote. Well, since that is just one spiritual experience in a long list of experiences I have had, and still have in my life. My experience trumps your attempt to make-up some story and believe it fits the occasion. What I told you have no more meaning to you than what you told me. The difference is I experienced it, and you only imagined yours. As I said before it’s a no-brainer. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/151 "2010-06-18T20:35:36Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > From the story we’ve been told, I don’t think the evidence supports the idea of a set up. There are two reasons: one, there’s an alternative explanation that still fits what we know and is simpler. It doesn’t require the brother to conspire with someone else to pull a prank for no particular reason. And two, if it was a prank and someone told the brother where the dog was, why did the psychic tell them to look in the wrong place? If they had not decided, unbidden, to look on a second road, they would have returned home empty-handed. Or else the brother would have had to direct them to the rock-not-dirt road. And _either_ explanation is easier to accept than psychic powers. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/152 "2010-06-18T20:38:11Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > As I said before it’s a no-brainer. i couldn’t agree with you more. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/153 "2010-06-18T20:38:47Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > My experience trumps your attempt to make-up some story and believe it fits the occasion. I didn’t make anything up. I took the descriptions you provided. All I did was point out that they’re easily explainable without any kind of communication after death. Because just like some other experiences you’ve claimed were supernatural, it makes more sense that you were dreaming. And that’s true no matter how vehemently you deny it. You heard a voice while you were sleeping = you were dreaming. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Hamsandwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4bbf92/32.png) [@Darth\_Hamsandwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Hamsandwich)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/154 "2010-06-18T20:40:28Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > From the story we’ve been told, I don’t think the evidence supports the idea of a set up. There are two reasons: one, there’s an alternative explanation that still fits what we know and is simpler. It doesn’t require the brother to conspire with someone else to pull a prank for no particular reason. And two, if it was a prank and someone told the brother where the dog was, why did the psychic tell them to look in the wrong place? If they had not decided, unbidden, to look on a second road, they would have returned home empty-handed. Or else the brother would have had to direct them to the rock-not-dirt road. **Marley** , I tend to agree with you on this because my brother COULD of been pulling my chain when he admitted to pulling the stunt on the phone today. Come to think of it he could be pranking me on the original prank that never happened. He is one sick bastard. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/155 "2010-06-18T20:44:30Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > What other explanation is needed? > You’re impuning people’s motives here and I object to it. It’s not like I, or **Diogenes the Cynic** , or **Mr. Excellent** , is going to your house and telling you your life is meaningless, or beating up a priest, or breaking up gospel breakfasts or anything like that. It’s a discussion. **Diogenes the Cynic** said he wanted to debunk ghost stories. A few people have offered stories about purported supernatural experiences. Everybody is aware of what they are doing. > Aside from your sarcasm and distorted claims that it’s right around the corner, that’s pretty much how science works as a process. You investigate things and try to understand them. If they are explainable by what we already know, then we have at least one possible explanation. If it’s not explainable based on what we know or contradicts what we think, then we research it and try to discover what the contradiction is and resolve it by revising our understanding. Some things are not explainable now, but there’s reason to think they will be in the future. > > You’re treating this like a self-reinforcing set of beliefs, but it isn’t. It’s a methodology that is intended to promote discovery. And it’s worked pretty well for us so far. It’s given us electricity, cures for malaria, the internet, and space exploration for a start. > This is a false statement based on blithe generalitities. Topics like quantum physics are certainly complicated but they don’t cause a breakdown in reasoning or the scientific method and they don’t provide support for gods any more than the everyday miracles (thunder, fire, sunsets, little baby ducks, _Sweatin’ to the Oldies vol. 1, 2, and 4_) that people used to used more often to the same effect. In other words it’s a god of the gaps explanation. Science begins with limitations that are not provable or testable. The limitation that everything must fit into a materialistic dimension. How does science know that only a materialistic dimension exists unless science knows everything. So if science doesn’t know everything, and still posits a material answer to every question than science is faulted by its very nature. I have studied a lot of Quantum mechanics and it does lead to the belief in an intelligent greater than ours. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/156 "2010-06-18T20:53:52Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Yes they are. They are the arrangement of pigments on a canvas. > > You can if you arrange it right. I’m really not following you here. No, what the artist brings into the world is the arrangement of pigments on a canvas. Where did it _come from?_ > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > It didn’t come from anything. Interesting choice of words! > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > You really want a super long post about the neurology of the brain? Please. I don’t think it would suffice, but yes. Please try. It would be thrilling if you succeeded. > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > “Running” is word used to refernce an observed physical act. Nothing mysterious about that. > > “Concepts” are just linguistic tools used to describe observable phenomena. They exist only as words but they serve as tools to access memories and observations. Again, I think you’re on very shaky philosophical ground. You’re describing a tool in one breath and defining it out of existence in the next. > [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](#): > > See, this is where I think your otherwise useful debunking goes off the rails. > > This argument, “ghosts don’t exist because they can’t” is dogmatic, and reminds me of someone arguing that the sun goes around the earth because it says so in the Bible. Or, to use a less inflammatory example, prior to the Challenger expedition (the boat, not the shuttle) they knew that the deep ocean had no life. Now we know it has lots of interesting stuff going on, because we looked for the data that shouldn’t be there according to the theory. That said, I think it is unlikely that physics will suddenly allow ghosts, but I wouldn’t have expected quarks, either. > > It makes more sense to me to say 'According to our understanding of physics, biology and physiology, ghost’s shouldn’t exist. Do can we come up with simpler, more parsimonious explanations? Sure, let’s try - how bout hallucinations, caused by stress, which are certainly more common". Occam’s Razor would then suggest the simpler explanation is more likely correct. This is a good post. It should elucidate a lot of what I’ve been saying here. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/157 "2010-06-18T20:54:41Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Science begins with limitations that are not provable or testable. The limitation that everything must fit into a materialistic dimension. How does science know that only a materialistic dimension exists unless science knows everything. So if science doesn’t know everything, and still posits a material answer to every question than science is faulted by its very nature. > > I have studied a lot of Quantum mechanics and it does lead to the belief in an intelligent greater than ours. Not one sentence of this is true. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/158 "2010-06-18T20:54:56Z")
**Marley** , I think you missed the post where **Darth** said he’d called his brother and his brother admitted it was a prank. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/159 "2010-06-18T20:56:06Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Science begins with limitations that are not provable or testable. Scientific processes assume the world is understandable. Most of us don’t see that as a problem with science, but you do. Which says more about your lack of knowledge about science than it says about science. ---
**Author:** ![hotflungwok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/edb3f5/32.png) [@hotflungwok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hotflungwok)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674/160 "2010-06-18T20:56:08Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Science begins with limitations that are not provable or testable. The limitation that everything must fit into a materialistic dimension. This is a limitation, in a manner of speaking, yes. Of course, until something that does not fit into the materialistic dimension is conclusively demonstrated to exist, it’s not a very big one. > [@](#): > > How does science know that only a materialistic dimension exists unless science knows everything. So if science doesn’t know everything, and still posits a material answer to every question than science is faulted by its very nature. Science doesn’t ‘know’ anything. It’s a process, a method. Stop anthropomorphizing it, by doing so you’re the one at fault here. > [@](#): > > I have studied a lot of Quantum mechanics and it does lead to the belief in an intelligent greater than ours. Ironically, this statement lets everyone who reads it know that you have indeed not studied quantum mechanics. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-ghost-stories-here-and-i-will-debunk-them/543674.md?page=9)