# Postal Service Tax waste **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 29, 2002, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/postal-service-tax-waste/145517 "2002-12-29T17:30:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![JAPrufrock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@JAPrufrock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JAPrufrock)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2002, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/postal-service-tax-waste/145517/1 "2002-12-29T17:30:46Z")
Maybe this is more of a gripe than a question, but here goes…can someone explain to me why the post office is allowed to spend money on advertising? I guess I can see them placing ads for packages, considering they have competition from UPS and the like. But, they’re now running ads informing us that we can buy stamps wherever some symbol is displayed. Uhm, am I missing something here? Shouldn’t the general population be able to figure this out on their own? Do we really need to be spending tax dollars on this? It’s not like a person is going to not find stamps, and then send their letter in some other manner. Any one care to enlighten me on this? ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2002, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/postal-service-tax-waste/145517/2 "2002-12-29T17:37:00Z")
The United States Post Office is not funded by tax dollars. [http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/history/A0839873.html](http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/history/A0839873.html) > [@](#): > > In the United States, postal service is under the direction of the U.S. Postal Service, having been reorganized in 1970 from the old Post Office Department. It is governed by an 11-member board, who choose a Postmaster General; since the reorganization, the Postmaster General is no longer a member of the cabinet. A separate five-member commission is charged with reviewing and approving rate changes proposed by the board. The U.S. Postal Service operates as an independent, self-supporting agency within the government. They can spend as much money on advertising as they want, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![PosterChild](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e274bd/32.png) [@PosterChild](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PosterChild)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2002, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/postal-service-tax-waste/145517/3 "2002-12-29T17:53:05Z")
> [@](#): > > ## \*Originally posted by \*\*\*Duck Duck Goose \*\* The United States Post Office is not funded by tax dollars. quote: > > ## In the United States, postal service is under the direction of the U.S. Postal Service, having been reorganized in 1970 from the old Post Office Department. It is governed by an 11-member board, who choose a Postmaster General; since the reorganization, the Postmaster General is no longer a member of the cabinet. A separate five-member commission is charged with reviewing and approving rate changes proposed by the board. The U.S. Postal Service operates as an independent, self-supporting agency within the government. > > [http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/history/A0839873.html](http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/history/A0839873.html) > They can spend as much money on advertising as they want, I guess. But I thought it was loosing money and congress has been appropriating growing amounts of money to help finance it. Not true? PC ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2002, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/postal-service-tax-waste/145517/4 "2002-12-29T18:06:07Z")
The answer is contained within **DDG’s quote …** > [@](#): > > The U.S. Postal Service operates as an independent, self-supporting agency within the government. Consider the Post Office as an college student living away from home. It is a quasi-independent agency of the federal government, and thus, still receives “care packages” from Mom & Dad because it still cannot quite make it on its own. This may not answer the OP, but nothing is really that clear anymore when it comes to many federal agencies. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2002, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/postal-service-tax-waste/145517/5 "2002-12-29T19:16:24Z")
If you want to gripe about tax money spent on advertising, look to the military. The USPS is a bargain. Peace, mangeorge ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2002, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/postal-service-tax-waste/145517/6 "2002-12-29T19:28:18Z")
In fact; The Post Office is a perfect example of how good socialism _can_ work. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![racer72](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/racer72/32/3075_2.png) [@racer72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/racer72)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2002, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/postal-service-tax-waste/145517/7 "2002-12-29T20:26:49Z")
The USPS spent over 3 million dollars in 2001 supporting Lance Armstrong and his bicycle racing team. About 1/3 of that was spent on the Tour de France alone. Other sports that the USPS has spent advertising dollars include college football and basketball, pro volleyball, auto racing, alpine skiing, swimming, lacrosse, horse trials, and rodeo. The USPS is going to sponsor a team in the NASCAR Busch Grand National Series in 2003, it is reportedly a 1.5 million dollar deal. [Here](http://jayski.thatsracin.com/schemes/2002bgn/27usps-front.jpg) is an example of a car that raced at Talladega in 2002. ---
**Author:** ![SandyHook](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dec6dc/32.png) [@SandyHook](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SandyHook)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2002, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/postal-service-tax-waste/145517/8 "2002-12-29T20:52:49Z")
PosterChild wrote: > [@](#): > > But I thought it was loosing money and congress has been appropriating growing amounts of money to help finance it. Not true? Typically what happens is that the Post Office get a postage raise ok’d. The first year after the raise they make money out the ass. The second year they about break even. And the third year is a financial diaster. It’s during the third year that the government loans them money to operate on. This will be repaid from the next general increase. So, over the three year period they about break even. ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2002, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/postal-service-tax-waste/145517/9 "2002-12-29T21:00:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by PosterChild \* > **But I thought it was loosing money and congress has been appropriating growing amounts of money to help finance it. Not true?** Not really. The USPS still gets a small appropriation to cover “foregone revenue” from Congressionally mandated free mailing, and recently hit up Congress for an advance on this money to cover operating losses. See [http://207.27.3.29/dailyfed/0302/031402w1.htm](http://207.27.3.29/dailyfed/0302/031402w1.htm) But still, the appropriation is only a small percentage of total USPS revenue. The problem with advertising is not so much that advertising will require the USPS to suck up additional tax dollars, but that it will require it to _raise postal rates_. So is the advertising a bad thing? Beats me. I used to work in a corporate marketing department, and we had a hell of a time figuring out when and whether to advertise, how much to spend, and in what medium. Often it’s hard to tie the dollars spent to a specific return. I guess I’d trust the USPS’s judgment more if they were answerable to investors rather than political appointees, but I live in the real world and I don’t expect this to happen any time soon. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2002, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/postal-service-tax-waste/145517/10 "2002-12-29T21:58:19Z")
I hope not. I don’t trust an entity “answerable to investors” to get a letter from Brawley, CA to Caribou, ME for the same price as LA to SF (37c). No way. Point to where USPS services are over priced. Cool race car, **racer72**. Peace, mangeorge ---
**Author:** ![Boxer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47774/32.png) [@Boxer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boxer)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2002, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/postal-service-tax-waste/145517/11 "2002-12-30T01:30:00Z")
In the interest of full disclosure. I am a letter carrier. The USPS does not get operating monies from the government. We pay our bills (80%+ is labor cost) out of the money we get from stamps. Even the revenue forgone mentioned above is not always paid in full. This year the USPS even discovered that we have been overpaying our share of the Federal Retirement costs our members share in. $Billions too much has been paid in over many years. I believe we will be getting this back. I am a little concerned about the wasted advertising expense. We ran an ad last year with Carley Simon in the background and a lot of patriotic schmaltz about how we survived the Twin Towers and Antrax deal. The thing that really bothers me is when the USPS decides to try to sell USPS coffee mugs or other companies… (such as the recent FedEx contract that is in my opinion completely illegal…even unconstitutional since the basic authorization for the Postal Service is in the Constitution.)…get mixed up in Postal work. That is a misuse of the best cause of the USPS mandate; to provide universal mail service at universal rates. If the Postal Service ever does get sold off to UPS or some other private schemers, the first thing that will result is that the New York Postal $$ will make tons of loot. The little rural post offices will lose money and stamps for rural delivery will cost the 10 times those in New York costs to reflect the real costs. It would be a nightmare. ---
**Author:** ![Boxer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47774/32.png) [@Boxer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boxer)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2002, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/postal-service-tax-waste/145517/12 "2002-12-30T01:36:19Z")
I can also tell you that much of the advertising is paid for by sponsors. For example, K-Mart knows that when people move they are more likely to be in the market for new housewares. So they sponsor our change of address kits. Our customers get coupons and welcoming information. The Postal Service gets all our change of address kits printed free. In any case this is all a very small part of our total budget. It is not the problem. (and believe me there are lots of problems in the USPS, perhaps more problems, more dysfunctional behavior than any other organization of its size in the whole world. I sometimes wonder what amazes me more; that the USPS is such a mess, or that it nonetheless accomplishes a near miraculous delivery task daily.)