# Postapocalyptic dynasties **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 17, 2013, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/postapocalyptic-dynasties/663765 "2013-07-17T16:15:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/postapocalyptic-dynasties/663765/1 "2013-07-17T16:15:56Z")
I’m currently (re)reading Sheri S. Tepper’s _Plague of Angels_ (and blessing the fact that I have zero memory for book plots, because I remember absolutely nothing of it from my first reading 20 years ago, so it’s like one of my favorite authors wrote a new book). It’s set in a postapoclyptic America, specifically the Rockies. There are different civilizations, etc. One group is descended from the scientists and technocrats of our era. There are four major families within this group – the Mittys, the Berklis, the Ellels, and the Anders. Clearly the first two came from MIT and Berkeley – but I’m not coming up with anything for the other two. Whaddya think? ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/postapocalyptic-dynasties/663765/2 "2013-07-18T01:48:53Z")
244 views and no guesses? I feel less stupid about being able to figure it out myself. Two more clues: > [@page 99](#): > > “Expect machines from the Mittys; aesthetics from the Anders; balks from the Berklis… And tyranny from the Ellels.” > [@page 107](#): > > “The Berklis are true to their heritage. They’re thinkers, not doers; they don’t take themselves too seriously, so their influence is limited. The Mittys are so completely dedicated to their own field, they’re not even aware of what else is going on. The Anders come from a sycophantish strain. They’re essentially unctuous and truckling, admirers of power without wanting to hold it in their own hands…Unlike the Ellels, who do.” ---
**Author:** ![KarlGrenze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@KarlGrenze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGrenze)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/postapocalyptic-dynasties/663765/3 "2013-07-18T01:55:58Z")
Isn’t Ely (or Elies) someone/s who studied at Yale? ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/postapocalyptic-dynasties/663765/4 "2013-07-18T01:58:35Z")
Ah, yes – a Yalie is an Eli, after its namesake, Elihu Yale. Yeah, that works. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![shantih](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f6c823/32.png) [@shantih](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shantih)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/postapocalyptic-dynasties/663765/5 "2013-07-18T07:14:36Z")
:: drumming fingers on the table :: Anders … Anders … could it be from Vanderbilt University? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/postapocalyptic-dynasties/663765/6 "2013-07-18T08:20:18Z")
There’s Andover Academy (which is actually Phillips Academy Andover) but that’s a prep school not a college. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/postapocalyptic-dynasties/663765/7 "2013-07-18T13:34:31Z")
All I could come up with was Sanford, but that doesn’t really work. Aesthetes and sycophants … hm … ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/postapocalyptic-dynasties/663765/8 "2013-07-18T14:25:15Z")
> [@twickster](#): > > I’m currently (re)reading Sheri S. Tepper’s _Plague of Angels_ (and blessing the fact that I have zero memory for book plots, because I remember absolutely nothing of it from my first reading 20 years ago, so it’s like one of my favorite authors wrote a new book). I’m afraid I can’t answer your question, I just thought this post was funny because I was at the public library the other day and happened to see _Plague of Angels_ (which I read about 15 years ago) on the shelf, considered checking it out, then thought “Nah, I remember everything that happens in it, and I’m more in the mood to read something new.” Then I read this: > [@](#): > > It’s set in a postapoclyptic America, specifically the Rockies. There are different civilizations, etc. One group is descended from the scientists and technocrats of our era. There are four major families within this group – the Mittys, the Berklis, the Ellels, and the Anders. Clearly the first two came from MIT and Berkeley – but I’m not coming up with anything for the other two. and thought “I do not remember that at all!” Well, I remember that there is a science-y civilization in the later part of the book, but that’s about it. I feel like I remember the basic plot fairly well, although maybe not! ---
**Author:** ![tanstaafl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ba8739/32.png) [@tanstaafl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tanstaafl)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/postapocalyptic-dynasties/663765/9 "2013-07-18T15:39:05Z")
I would have guessed that the Ellels (“LLs”) were Lawrence Livermore labs. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/postapocalyptic-dynasties/663765/10 "2013-07-18T16:03:56Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > I’m afraid I can’t answer your question, I just thought this post was funny because I was at the public library the other day and happened to see _Plague of Angels_ (which I read about 15 years ago) on the shelf, considered checking it out, then thought “Nah, I remember everything that happens in it, and I’m more in the mood to read something new.” > > Then I read this: > and thought “I do not remember that at all!” Well, I remember that there is a science-y civilization in the later part of the book, but that’s about it. I feel like I remember the basic plot fairly well, although maybe not! Well, there are several interlocking plots going on at the same time, and what’s going on with these families is just one of them. I actually decided to reread it because I just finished her most recent book, _The Waters Rising_, which is set elsewhere in the same world and involves one of the same characters. > [@tanstaafl](#): > > I would have guessed that the Ellels (“LLs”) were Lawrence Livermore labs. That actually makes more sense – Yalies aren’t necessarily known for being power-mad, the whole Bush/Skull and Bones thing to the contrary. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/postapocalyptic-dynasties/663765/11 "2013-07-18T16:08:00Z")
But who are the Anders? ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/postapocalyptic-dynasties/663765/12 "2013-07-18T16:42:38Z")
I Googled a bit and found an old, brief thread on another message board asking basically the same question. The posters there thought the Ellels’s were possibly derived from Yale but more likely Lawrence Livermore…and were apparently stumped on the Anders. Just as a guess I checked for schools named “Anderson”, and while there are two Anderson Universities in the US (both private, Christian schools) and the Anderson School of Management at UCLA none seem like obvious matches for the description of the Anders. The Anderson School of Management is a top ranked business program and I guess big shot business executives could be caricatured as preferring to cozy up to people with (political) power than to hold such positions themselves, but the “aesthetics” bit doesn’t make sense to me in that context. The description of the Anders sounds more to me like a caricature of artists who want to be supported by powerful patrons. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/postapocalyptic-dynasties/663765/13 "2013-07-18T17:49:35Z")
Hm, thanks, **Lamia** – didn’t occur to me to check elsewhere for a discussion. The one thing that occurred to me for Anders was that it might be from “androgynous” – the male members of the clan we’ve seen seem to favor embroidered robes, etc. (We haven’t seen descriptions of any female members yet.) Tepper’s feminist credentials are in pretty good order, though, so I don’t necessarily want to argue strongly for that interpretation. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Bredin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@John\_Bredin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Bredin)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/postapocalyptic-dynasties/663765/14 "2013-07-18T21:38:07Z")
WAG: Anders as NDers, for Notre Dame? Priests wear embroidered robes, and some of the technocrats [del]must[/del] should be “flyover country” people. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/postapocalyptic-dynasties/663765/15 "2013-07-18T23:57:15Z")
> [@tanstaafl](#): > > I would have guessed that the Ellels (“LLs”) were Lawrence Livermore labs. Me too. Maybe Anders are followers of “Andy Warhol” ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/postapocalyptic-dynasties/663765/16 "2013-07-19T11:59:54Z")
> [@John\_Bredin](#): > > WAG: Anders as NDers, for Notre Dame? Priests wear embroidered robes, and some of the technocrats [del]must[/del] should be “flyover country” people. 😛 This is actually a darned good theory. Let me keep it in mind as I continue reading (I’m about halfway through the book – there should be plenty more Anders action to come). ---
**Author:** ![sinjin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@sinjin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sinjin)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/postapocalyptic-dynasties/663765/17 "2013-07-19T21:17:40Z")
Maybe Sandia Labs for the Anders? ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/postapocalyptic-dynasties/663765/18 "2013-07-19T22:03:08Z")
> [@tanstaafl](#): > > I would have guessed that the Ellels (“LLs”) were Lawrence Livermore labs. That would be my guess, since it’s set in the Rockies. They’re on the left side of the country. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGrenze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@KarlGrenze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGrenze)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/postapocalyptic-dynasties/663765/19 "2013-07-19T22:13:42Z")
It may be set in the west, but MIT is definitely on the east coast (and apparently they derived the Mitties). ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/postapocalyptic-dynasties/663765/20 "2013-07-19T22:25:52Z")
How about if “Anders” refers to a college with “and” in the middle, like William & Mary? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/postapocalyptic-dynasties/663765.md?page=2)