# Poster Warned then Suspended for debating in Great Debates **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [October 21, 2019, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poster-warned-then-suspended-for-debating-in-great-debates/842092 "2019-10-21T16:26:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2019, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poster-warned-then-suspended-for-debating-in-great-debates/842092/21 "2019-10-22T14:10:55Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Being against freedom of speech is an odd take for a self-proclaimed anarchist. A private message board deciding who can participate on their private board has nothing to do with “freedom of speech”. Restricting private message boards from deciding who can participate on their private boards would actually be a restriction on free speech. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2019, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poster-warned-then-suspended-for-debating-in-great-debates/842092/22 "2019-10-22T19:46:36Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Being against freedom of speech is an odd take for a self-proclaimed anarchist. Freeze peach? I don’t think it exists. But it’s irrelevant in a private setting, anyway. Which this is. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2019, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poster-warned-then-suspended-for-debating-in-great-debates/842092/23 "2019-10-22T20:24:19Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > But it’s irrelevant in a private setting, anyway. Which this is. No it isn’t. One can have a moral view that a forum dedicated to debate should, you know, allow debate without thinking it should be a legal issue. I wouldn’t expect a hypocrite like you to see the contradiction with opposing rules whilst fighting to have them imposed on your enemies, though. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2019, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poster-warned-then-suspended-for-debating-in-great-debates/842092/24 "2019-10-22T20:31:55Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > No it isn’t. I could have sworn it was. When did the government buy it? ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2019, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poster-warned-then-suspended-for-debating-in-great-debates/842092/25 "2019-10-22T20:44:25Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > A private message board deciding who can participate on their private board has nothing to do with “freedom of speech”. > [@MrDibble](#): > > But it’s irrelevant in a private setting, anyway. Which this is. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > When did the government buy it? Nonsense. Of course it’s relevant to freedom of speech. We aren’t talking about a U.S. court case here. The issue of freedom of speech in society is a far broader question than just the parochial question of what legal protections are granted by the U.S. Constitution against government interference. > **[Freedom of speech](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech)** > > Freedom of speech is a principle that supports the freedom of an individual or a community to articulate their opinions and ideas without fear of retaliation, censorship, or legal sanction. The right to freedom of expression has been recognised as a human right in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and international human rights law by the United Nations. Many countries have constitutional law that protects free speech. Terms like free speech, freedom of speech, and freedom of expression... Note that you have to get halfway down the long Wikipedia article before an example involving the U.S. Constitution is mentioned. In this context, Steophan is obviously talking about _this board’s policy_ on freedom of speech. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2019, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poster-warned-then-suspended-for-debating-in-great-debates/842092/26 "2019-10-22T20:48:58Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Nonsense. Of course it’s relevant to freedom of speech. We aren’t talking about U.S. court case here. The issue of freedom of speech in society is a far broader question than just the parochial question of what legal protections are granted by the U.S. Constitution against government interference. > > [Freedom of speech - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech) > > Note that you have to get halfway down the long Wikipedia article before an example involving the U.S. Constitution is mentioned. > > In this context, Steophan is obviously talking about _this board’s policy_ on freedom of speech. How dedicated to free speech must you be to let someone stay in your living room and insult your other guests? ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2019, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poster-warned-then-suspended-for-debating-in-great-debates/842092/27 "2019-10-22T20:52:49Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I could have sworn it was. When did the government buy it? Free speech is a moral, not legal issue, and when an organisation censors anything they are not legally required to, or discriminates on who to provide a plaform to, they are committing an immoral act. Or, possibly, an amoral one if they explicitly put profit before morality, and therefore don’t consider the morals of the act at all, but even I am not quite capitalist enough to endorse that view. Due to the censorship on this board, I doubt that that view would be endorsed by anyone, which is a loss to debate. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2019, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poster-warned-then-suspended-for-debating-in-great-debates/842092/28 "2019-10-22T20:54:46Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Free speech is a moral, not legal issue, and when an organisation censors anything they are not legally required to, or discriminates on who to provide a plaform to, they are committing an immoral act. Or, possibly, an amoral one if they explicitly put profit before morality, and therefore don’t consider the morals of the act at all, but even I am not quite capitalist enough to endorse that view. > > Due to the censorship on this board, I doubt that that view would be endorsed by anyone, which is a loss to debate. An easy belief to have in someone else’s venue. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2019, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poster-warned-then-suspended-for-debating-in-great-debates/842092/29 "2019-10-22T20:59:32Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > How dedicated to free speech must you be to let someone stay in your living room and insult your other guests? That’s not the point, the point is that you should not decide whether or not to allow those insults based on whether you agree with them or not. For example, if I’m at a party and say I think someone is an idiot for supporting Jeremy Corbyn, you cannot morally throw me out but not the person who says I’m an idiot for supporting Jo Swinson, or the person who calls someone else an idiot for supporting Boris Johnson. What you obviously can do is to make a rule against insults, or political discussion, that applies to everybody - but just saying that someone can’t say something because they’re inthe minority is unacceptable. That, however, is exactly what was done to **Will Farnaby** , and to a good few other posters here - and yet is not done to those on the extreme left who post nonsense and insult people to a far greater extent than he did. It’s hypocrisy, it’s censorship, it is immoral, and it is - perhaps worst of all for this board - promoting ignorance by allowing people to form an echo chamber. If a board such as this is not making people feel uncomfortable on a regular basis, and making them question their beliefs, it is not doing its job. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2019, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poster-warned-then-suspended-for-debating-in-great-debates/842092/30 "2019-10-22T21:00:38Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > An easy belief to have in someone else’s venue. It is certainly easy to have a correct belief in this case. I am actually enjoying the hypocrisy of all the lefties here supporting bigotry, though. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2019, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poster-warned-then-suspended-for-debating-in-great-debates/842092/31 "2019-10-22T21:03:35Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > If a board such as this is not making people feel uncomfortable on a regular basis, and making them question their beliefs, it is not doing its job. You sound uncomfortable. Are you questioning your beliefs yet? ---
**Author:** ![Kron](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kron/32/12444_2.png) [@Kron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kron)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2019, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poster-warned-then-suspended-for-debating-in-great-debates/842092/32 "2019-10-22T21:05:39Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I think you have[your reply](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=884007). > > Personally, I think that’s great modding. Now we see the violence inherent in the system! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2019, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poster-warned-then-suspended-for-debating-in-great-debates/842092/33 "2019-10-22T21:08:36Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > How dedicated to free speech must you be to let someone stay in your living room and insult your other guests? That’s a complete _non sequitur_ to what I wrote. I don’t agree with Steophan’s take on this. I disagreed with one particular warning, but I haven’t followed Will’s posting closely enough to judge the overall situation. I have great respect for Bone as a moderator, and for the moderation here in general, and I’m not inclined to second guess the banning. What I objected to was the suggestion that Steophan shouldn’t even express an opinion on board’s policy on freedom of speech, for the misguided reason that the term “freedom of speech” can only ever refer to First Amendment legal challenges. Expressing opinions on moderation policy is one purpose of ATMB, and balancing freedom of speech against other concerns is part of that policy. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2019, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poster-warned-then-suspended-for-debating-in-great-debates/842092/34 "2019-10-22T21:13:30Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > That’s not the point, the point is that you should not decide whether or not to allow those insults based on whether you agree with them or not. > > For example, if I’m at a party and say I think someone is an idiot for supporting Jeremy Corbyn, you cannot morally throw me out but not the person who says I’m an idiot for supporting Jo Swinson, or the person who calls someone else an idiot for supporting Boris Johnson. > > What you obviously can do is to make a rule against insults, or political discussion, that applies to everybody - but just saying that someone can’t say something because they’re inthe minority is unacceptable. > > That, however, is exactly what was done to **Will Farnaby** , and to a good few other posters here - and yet is not done to those on the extreme left who post nonsense and insult people to a far greater extent than he did. It’s hypocrisy, it’s censorship, it is immoral, and it is - perhaps worst of all for this board - promoting ignorance by allowing people to form an echo chamber. > > If a board such as this is not making people feel uncomfortable on a regular basis, and making them question their beliefs, it is not doing its job. Look, there was obviously animus between the two. One had power and is here. One didn’t and is gone. It does have an ironic parallel to the dangers of statism. I happen to think the original prohibition was very carefully and expertly worded to look as if context and nuance was to play a role. In practice, it was a bit of a trap. Now, they can throw out anyone they wish and for any or no reason at all. No one has a moral right to use these boards. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2019, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poster-warned-then-suspended-for-debating-in-great-debates/842092/35 "2019-10-22T21:27:16Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > It does have an ironic parallel to the dangers of statism. To call it ironic tends to imply that there’s no direct causal relationship. A person’s opinions on the state abusing its power are surely well correlated with their inclination to follow rules set by others in general. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2019, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poster-warned-then-suspended-for-debating-in-great-debates/842092/36 "2019-10-22T21:28:43Z")
**Moderator Note** > [@Steophan](#): > > I wouldn’t expect a hypocrite like you … This is ATMB, not the Pit. Treat others respectfully and do not insult others in this forum. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2019, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poster-warned-then-suspended-for-debating-in-great-debates/842092/37 "2019-10-22T22:15:36Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > No it isn’t. One can have a moral view that a forum dedicated to debate should, you know, allow debate without thinking it should be a legal issue. One can, and there are also reasonable limits that can be placed on disruptive behavior. You appear to disagree that this qualified as disruptive behavior. Your opinion is your own, and not factual, and the moderators appear to disagree. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2019, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poster-warned-then-suspended-for-debating-in-great-debates/842092/38 "2019-10-22T22:20:56Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > That’s not the point, the point is that you should not decide whether or not to allow those insults based on whether you agree with them or not. I’m curious what you think I agree or disagree with. I identify as a libertarian, though I like to think my flavor of libertarianism is pragmatic. You are welcome to disagree with moderation or the rules or ask that they be changed, etc. The ability to speak and discuss is not being curtailed. What is being done is making sure that rules are followed. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2019, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poster-warned-then-suspended-for-debating-in-great-debates/842092/39 "2019-10-22T22:36:20Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > I’m curious what you think I agree or disagree with. I identify as a libertarian, though I like to think my flavor of libertarianism is pragmatic. > > You are welcome to disagree with moderation or the rules or ask that they be changed, etc. The ability to speak and discuss is not being curtailed. What is being done is making sure that rules are followed. Obviously, because you haven’t banned me, you must think I’m an incredibly reasonable, well-informed, and brilliant poster, and you hate **WillF** because he’s been so mean to me. And I’ll just say that I thank you for your wonderful, brilliant, and ever-so-reasonable moderation and support. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2019, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poster-warned-then-suspended-for-debating-in-great-debates/842092/40 "2019-10-22T22:46:48Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Your opinion is your own, and not factual, and the moderators appear to disagree. Again, this is a bizarre objection. It’s like if someone says they disagree with U.S. policy in Syria, responding with the _non sequitur_ “So you think _you_ rather than the elected President should set policy?”. The opinion expressed was about the merits of the policy, not the merits of democratic elections. I see no evidence that Steophan is seeking to stage a coup. He’s expressing his own opinion on mod policy, which is one of the purposes of ATMB. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poster-warned-then-suspended-for-debating-in-great-debates/842092.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poster-warned-then-suspended-for-debating-in-great-debates/842092.md?page=3)