# Poster Warned then Suspended for debating in Great Debates **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [October 21, 2019, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poster-warned-then-suspended-for-debating-in-great-debates/842092 "2019-10-21T16:26:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2019, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poster-warned-then-suspended-for-debating-in-great-debates/842092/41 "2019-10-22T23:15:58Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Again, this is a bizarre objection. It’s like if someone says they disagree with U.S. policy in Syria, responding with the _non sequitur_ “So you think _you_ rather than the elected President should set policy?”. The opinion expressed was about the merits of the policy, not the merits of democratic elections. > > I see no evidence that Steophan is seeking to stage a coup. He’s expressing his own opinion on mod policy, which is one of the purposes of ATMB. Fair enough. If he agrees this is just an honest difference of opinion, I’ll certainly retract my post. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2019, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poster-warned-then-suspended-for-debating-in-great-debates/842092/42 "2019-10-23T00:54:05Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > One can, and there are also reasonable limits that can be placed on disruptive behavior. You appear to disagree that this qualified as disruptive behavior. Your opinion is your own, and not factual, and the moderators appear to disagree. Pretty much any post with actual content, that is even tangentially related to the subject, is not disruptive in a debate. My point, though, is that restrictions on disruptive behaviour should not include restrictions on the content of posts, just on the way it’s presented. So, you can say that people cannot call others idiots. You can say that people can’t discuss politics. But you should not say that only one side can discuss politics, or that only one side will get banned for insults - and yet that is what has happened here. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2019, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poster-warned-then-suspended-for-debating-in-great-debates/842092/43 "2019-10-23T00:58:44Z")
> [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > **Moderator Note** > > This is ATMB, not the Pit. Treat others respectfully and do not insult others in this forum. I’m not sure if I should reply to this here as its ATMB or start another thread, so I’ll do it here. Calling someone hypocritical is based on their actions and posts, it’s not an insult. If that’s going to be a banned word going forward, please make sure it’s a clear rule that applies to everybody. Just to make it clear, pointing out facts is not insulting. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2019, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poster-warned-then-suspended-for-debating-in-great-debates/842092/44 "2019-10-23T02:24:44Z")
Calling someone a “hypocrite” is not a fact. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2019, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poster-warned-then-suspended-for-debating-in-great-debates/842092/45 "2019-10-23T02:45:52Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > But you should not say that only one side can discuss politics, or that only one side will get banned for insults - and yet that is what has happened here. I’m struggling to see how you could draw this conclusion. If we were doing what you are alleging then I’d be opposed. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2019, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poster-warned-then-suspended-for-debating-in-great-debates/842092/46 "2019-10-23T02:46:04Z")
He was guilty on the followup, but I think it’s ridiculous to say someone can’t bring their own personal political orientation to bear in a debate thread. My perspective is pretty much the opposite of his on those topics, but I don’t like this idea on principle. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2019, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poster-warned-then-suspended-for-debating-in-great-debates/842092/47 "2019-10-23T02:50:03Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > I’m not sure if I should reply to this here as its ATMB or start another thread, so I’ll do it here. Calling someone hypocritical is based on their actions and posts, it’s not an insult. If that’s going to be a banned word going forward, please make sure it’s a clear rule that applies to everybody. > > Just to make it clear, pointing out facts is not insulting. You attacked the person (hypocrite like you) and not the post (that statement is hypocritical) - them’s the rules. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2019, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poster-warned-then-suspended-for-debating-in-great-debates/842092/48 "2019-10-23T03:29:25Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > He was guilty on the followup, but I think it’s ridiculous to say someone can’t bring their own personal political orientation to bear in a debate thread. My perspective is pretty much the opposite of his on those topics, but I don’t like this idea on principle. There’s more to it than that. See my post #12 above and subsequent comments. He had been barred from interjecting his hobby horse into “unrelated” threads, because he used to do it so persistently. So the initial warning hinged on whether this thread was unrelated. That’s a judgment call, Bone obviously thought it was unrelated, I personally thought he should have been given more latitude because it was close enough. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2019, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poster-warned-then-suspended-for-debating-in-great-debates/842092/49 "2019-10-23T04:03:33Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > There’s more to it than that. See my post #12 above and subsequent comments. He had been barred from interjecting his hobby horse into “unrelated” threads, because he used to do it so persistently. So the initial warning hinged on whether this thread was unrelated. That’s a judgment call, Bone obviously thought it was unrelated, I personally thought he should have been given more latitude because it was close enough. I am aware of that history, and I feel those earlier warnings and instructions were bogus also. It’s not like he came into a CS thread about Jeopardy and started randomly blathering non sequiturs about “statism” and libertarianism. Every example I have seen is of his interpreting contemporary issues through that prism, which is just what you would expect someone with that ideology to do, and to argue for. The fact that Bone or anyone else may get tired of it is irrelevant. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2019, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poster-warned-then-suspended-for-debating-in-great-debates/842092/50 "2019-10-23T04:17:31Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > I am aware of that history, and I feel those earlier warnings and instructions were bogus also. It’s not like he came into a CS thread about Jeopardy and started randomly blathering non sequiturs about “statism” and libertarianism. Every example I have seen is of his interpreting contemporary issues through that prism, which is just what you would expect someone with that ideology to do, and to argue for. The fact that Bone or anyone else may get tired of it is irrelevant. Since Will had a minority viewpoint I’m sure he also had a disproportionate amount of reports about his posts while similar quality posts from those that align with the majority point of view probably have no reports. It’s sort of funny how that works. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2019, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poster-warned-then-suspended-for-debating-in-great-debates/842092/51 "2019-10-23T04:21:17Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > He was guilty on the followup, but I think it’s ridiculous to say someone can’t bring their own personal political orientation to bear in a debate thread. My perspective is pretty much the opposite of his on those topics, but I don’t like this idea on principle. People aren’t allowed to hijack threads over and over. That’s the principle. What principle are you basing your objection on? Do you think people should be able to hijack threads? He was given instructions and did not follow them, was suspended for excessive warnings, including not following that instruction less than a month ago. When a moderator gives instructions, they are not optional. This is how topic bans work. See here: > [@Terms of Service and FAQ](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terms-of-service-and-faq/823562/1): > > If we tell you to refrain from behavior that we regard as uncivil, or that in our view detracts from productive discussion, do so or face revocation of your posting privileges. If a person valued their posting privileges, it would stand to reason they’d be weary of violating those instructions going forward. We have a system much like progressive discipline systems that exist across many businesses. The suspension is supposed to serve as very strong notice that unless behavior is changed, escalation will occur. The behavior did not change. > [@Steophan](#): > > I would hope the Powers That Be will rescind this suspension and remove **Bone** as a Mod immediately, … The first part of this hope was realized, though probably not in the way you were thinking. The mod team votes on suspensions and bannings so the second part, not so much. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2019, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poster-warned-then-suspended-for-debating-in-great-debates/842092/52 "2019-10-23T04:30:08Z")
In light of the proposed reduction of the number of Bone Moderators to zero, I feel that Bone should take it as a vote of confidence that the number of Bone Moderators instead doubled recently! ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2019, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poster-warned-then-suspended-for-debating-in-great-debates/842092/53 "2019-10-23T05:36:13Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > He was given instructions and did not follow them, was suspended for excessive warnings, including not following that instruction less than a month ago. When a moderator gives instructions, they are not optional. This is how topic bans work. See here: > > If a person valued their posting privileges, it would stand to reason they’d be weary of violating those instructions going forward. > > We have a system much like progressive discipline systems that exist across many businesses. The suspension is supposed to serve as very strong notice that unless behavior is changed, escalation will occur. The behavior did not change. You are making an argument about process, while mine is about principle. What if you gave someone an instruction that they are not allowed to bring their religious beliefs into a debate? The subject is abortion, and they say it’s wrong to even conduct very early abortion because the fetus has a soul. You tell them no more talk about ensoulment and they bring it up again anyway. Every bit of the process you are describing would be in play there, but the real problem is that you started out saying they could not apply a personally deeply meaningful ideological belief to their argument. That’s absurd. Therefore what you are really doing is banning certain ideologies from the debate. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2019, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poster-warned-then-suspended-for-debating-in-great-debates/842092/54 "2019-10-23T06:59:51Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > You are making an argument about process, while mine is about principle…you started out saying they could not apply a personally deeply meaningful ideological belief to their argument… > > Therefore what you are really doing is banning certain ideologies from the debate. But to do a _reductio ad absurdum_, what if one of the cranks who thinks relativity is wrong comes in starts spamming every GQ physics thread with their “perspective”? I think if you have a view that is generally held to be extreme and unconventional in some way, you have to accept that if you _constantly_ raise the issue it will annoy people. Your voice can still be heard, but you have to be reasonable and diplomatic about it, you can’t insist on going over the same ground repeatedly when people sometimes want to talk about other issues. In general I favor broad latitude for people who I think are sincere, even if I find them a bit weird. And as I’ve said I personally would have made a different call on whether Will was off-topic in this instance. But I do see it as just a judgment call and a matter of opinion, not a matter of absolute principle, on where you draw the line with this stuff. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2019, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poster-warned-then-suspended-for-debating-in-great-debates/842092/55 "2019-10-23T07:31:04Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > In light of the proposed reduction of the number of Bone Moderators to zero, I feel that Bone should take it as a vote of confidence that the number of Bone Moderators instead doubled recently! Bone (one of them, at least) was removed as a mod, so I guess Steophan got his wish. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2019, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poster-warned-then-suspended-for-debating-in-great-debates/842092/56 "2019-10-23T07:45:00Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > the contradiction with opposing rules whilst fighting to have them imposed on your enemies, though. I’m not opposed to rules, whatever gives you that idea? I love rules. I’m opposed to _rulers_. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2019, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poster-warned-then-suspended-for-debating-in-great-debates/842092/57 "2019-10-23T07:48:40Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Just to make it clear, pointing out facts is not insulting. Try calling racists racist in GD… ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2019, 9:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poster-warned-then-suspended-for-debating-in-great-debates/842092/58 "2019-10-23T09:23:21Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Since Will had a minority viewpoint I’m sure he also had a disproportionate amount of reports about his posts while similar quality posts from those that align with the majority point of view probably have no reports. It’s sort of funny how that works. The issue wasn’t the specific views he held. We have (and have always had) plenty of posters here with minority views. The issue was the way he expressed those views, the way he shoehorned his personal agendas and petty grievances into other threads regardless of topic, the way he accused everyone who didn’t completely and immediately buy into his worldview of supporting oppression, and the way he repeatedly ignored the rules even when specifically instructed not to do so. Funny how that works. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2019, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poster-warned-then-suspended-for-debating-in-great-debates/842092/59 "2019-10-23T13:03:57Z")
And now he’s _banned_ over this ticky-tack BS? Jesus. :smack: I have said the moderation here has been on a worrisome trajectory, but this is moving way faster than even I had expected. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2019, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poster-warned-then-suspended-for-debating-in-great-debates/842092/60 "2019-10-23T14:23:16Z")
He’s banned for racking up 8 warnings, [5 in the past year](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=884007), and blatantly disregarding them and snarking at the mods instead. That doesn’t seem unreasonable. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poster-warned-then-suspended-for-debating-in-great-debates/842092.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poster-warned-then-suspended-for-debating-in-great-debates/842092.md?page=4)